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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Labour would be even worse grrrr

194 replies

Explaintome · 27/09/2022 18:27

In the pub last night, rolling news headlines on the TV and we talked briefly about rising interest rates/falling pound.

One man trotted out the now tired line "Labour would be even worse".

"Why?" I said, "what is it that they would do less well?" He couldn't answer, as I find is often the case with people who are certain Labour would be worse. They can't tell me why.

They may be right, they are certainly entitled to that view, but surely to be so convinced about any opinion you must also have some idea of why that is?

This is a middle aged man, does an ordinary, low level management/sales job. He'd tell you himself, he's not particularly clever and he's not interested in/doesn't undertlstand politics or the economy and yet he's so convinced of this view. It was probably unfair of me to challenge him knowing he wouldn't have an argument, but there seem to be a lot like him and frankly it's scary. 12 years and still people are convinced Tory is the best answer, even if they don't know why.

FWIW he's a nice man with other attributes, an encyclopedic music knowledge and good company provided you don't try and talk about the news 😆

OP posts:
BirmaBrite · 27/09/2022 21:50

The Conservatives have two more years in power, two more years of making the decisions, two more years of being entirely responsible for what happens next. Its's worrying to say the least, how much havoc could they wreak in that timescale ?.

Believeitornot · 27/09/2022 21:51

scorpiogirly · 27/09/2022 21:49

The don't know what a woman is.

Fucking bullshit.

the Tories have been in power since 2010, so all of that stuff is on them.

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 27/09/2022 21:51

It's brainwashing- pure and simple. Rupert Murdoch has made a decent living doing it to people for decades.

Believeitornot · 27/09/2022 21:51

BirmaBrite · 27/09/2022 21:50

The Conservatives have two more years in power, two more years of making the decisions, two more years of being entirely responsible for what happens next. Its's worrying to say the least, how much havoc could they wreak in that timescale ?.

Look what they’ve managed since Friday!

User135644 · 27/09/2022 21:52

MintJulia · 27/09/2022 18:37

YANBU. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but it seems reasonable to have some basis for an opinion.

For me, it's that note Labour left last time, saying 'Good Luck, There's no money left.' That a minister of state could openly admit getting the exchequer into such a mess, be fully aware of it, and think it's a cause for humour was unforgiveable. I'm scared that attitude persists, that it will happen again.

but Truss is no better.

The choice faced by the British electorate is appalling.

That note is a standard joke from departing treasury officials. The Tories used it for their own purposes.

CaptainSamCarter · 27/09/2022 21:53

Would love all the 'they don't know what a woman is" folk to explain how women are better off under a government that has seen a huge increase in child poverty, rates of conviction for rape collapse, massive increase in NHS waiting times, and housing become unaffordable. Oh yeah, it's definitely the transwomen in bathrooms that are the biggest threat.

Cassillero · 27/09/2022 21:55

I haven't read all the responses but I just want to say this.

No-one speaks for us. I was a member of the Labour Party until 2019. I left them because of Self ID.

During covid it became very clear to me that there was absolutely NO opposition. There was no one at all who spoke up and said perhaps we might be a bit fucked if we destroyed small business, continued printing money, transferring wealth to the already rich, and then on top of that transferring billions in a futile war against Russia.

We are where we are. I cannot understand how anyone at all can look at where we are and seriously think we can vote our way out of this shitstorm.

beachcitygirl · 27/09/2022 21:55

Thank god I live in scotland & have the eminently sensible sturgeon to vote for

User135644 · 27/09/2022 21:55

Cornettoninja · 27/09/2022 19:44

’Labour would be worse’
’Corbyn would have been worse’
’theres no better alternative’

All lazy repetition of propaganda when someone has nothing left to say.

At least it’s a decent red flag that I’m talking to someone who is politically lazy.

It's a defence mechanism to insulate people from themselves and their own voting choices or discredited opinions. They'll always have a reason to back up why they voted Brexit or Boris Johnson or Dave Cameron over 'chaos with Ed Miliband'.

"Okay everything went to shit but it would have been even worse had I chose the other guy". it's themselves they're trying to convince.

Bacibaci · 27/09/2022 21:56

Below I will copy and paste a large part of Labour shadow minister Lisa Nandy’s speech yesterday and have highlighted in bold her comment on her plans for housing. All these policies and focus on making the economy work for all I can get behind. I had a quick look on Daily Mail website and no surprise not a squeak from them on all of this.

“Now Liz Truss says her government will grow our economy by turning the North into Singapore-on-Sea. So they can stash their wealth in our towns and cities, pushing up the cost of housing and dodging tax. Slashing taxes for big corporations so the rest of us can grind for a living in an Amazon warehouse. Handing £55,000 to millionaires while people can’t afford to pay their rent, feed their kids and heat their homes. More money for millionaires than the whole North of England. In the words of Liz Truss – That. Is. A. Disgrace.

Conference. It’s time to stand up and fight again. Not just to see off the Tories. But to build the country I’ve believed in all my life – where everyone can contribute and everyone has a stake in our future.

It will be about the real wealth creators – the women and men who work in our shops, who drive our buses, who deliver our mail, who produce our food, who care for our families and teach our children – who make sure we have what we need to live every day of our lives. To those people, we say you are the foundation of our economy.

We believe that when people have a stake in the outcome, they work harder, they try longer, they think more creatively and they do more. The people of our country are our great untapped asset. Labour will tilt the balance of power back in their favour.

In the first 100 days, we will end fire and rehire, repeal the 2016 anti-trade union Act and raise wages for the lowest paid. And we’ll usher in a great rebalancing of power, with wealth, security and opportunity spread across the whole country.

They say you can power a modern economy using only a handful of people in a handful of places in one small corner of the country. We say that’s like trying to fly a jet on one engine. This country doesn’t belong to a few of them, it belongs to all of us.

So we will invest to bring clean energy jobs to the industrial and coastal towns across Britain, so that young people in places that were once the engines of Britain can power us through the next century like their parents and grandparents powered us through the last. The road to net zero is paved with a million good jobs, and we’ll bring them to Britain.

Empowering our brilliant leaders – Steve, Tracy, Andy, Marvin, Shaun – with new powers to drive growth in every part of Britain. And handing power back to our people with a community right-to-buy land and assets – the football clubs, historic buildings and pubs that make a place home. So those with skin in the game, who are in it for the long haul, will feel the whole system pulling in behind them. That – Liz Truss – is how you grow the economy.

But I have learnt that progress is not inevitable. If we want to live in a country where children don’t have to go to school too hungry to learn. Where people with disabilities can live the richer, larger lives they deserve. Where people don’t have to fear growing old without dignity or warmth. If we want that country, we have to go out and fight for it every single day.

So I am asking you today to get ready. Because together, with every person, in every place we’re going to rebuild this country from the ground up. And I can say to you today that in government, I will make it my priority to tackle the housing crisis because nothing, nothing is more important than a home.

The Tories have turned housing into a racket. Incentivising speculation and profiteering while millions languish on waiting lists in cold damp homes. So we will mend the deliberate vandalism of our social housing stock. Because the idea of a home for life handed on in common ownership to future generations. Is an idea worth fighting for.
**
Council housing is not a dirty word. So today, I can announce we will be the first government in a generation to restore social housing to the second largest from of tenure. This will be our mantra. Council housing, council housing, council housing.

We’re going to rebuild our social housing stock and bring homes back into the ownership of local councils and communities. With home ownership opened up to millions more.

And for private renters we will tilt the balance of power back to you through a powerful new renters charter and a new decent homes standard – written into law. Because security in your home, the right to make your home your own and most of all the right to live in a home fit for human habitation, is non-negotiable. Because housing isn’t a market. It’s a fundamental human right.”

FayeGovan · 27/09/2022 21:57

beachcitygirl · 27/09/2022 21:55

Thank god I live in scotland & have the eminently sensible sturgeon to vote for

Snp make plenty mistakes but im voting independence until we get it.

Believeitornot · 27/09/2022 21:58

Cassillero · 27/09/2022 21:55

I haven't read all the responses but I just want to say this.

No-one speaks for us. I was a member of the Labour Party until 2019. I left them because of Self ID.

During covid it became very clear to me that there was absolutely NO opposition. There was no one at all who spoke up and said perhaps we might be a bit fucked if we destroyed small business, continued printing money, transferring wealth to the already rich, and then on top of that transferring billions in a futile war against Russia.

We are where we are. I cannot understand how anyone at all can look at where we are and seriously think we can vote our way out of this shitstorm.

That is the system we live in. You have to work with what you’ve got.

ilovesooty · 27/09/2022 21:59

CaptainSamCarter · 27/09/2022 21:53

Would love all the 'they don't know what a woman is" folk to explain how women are better off under a government that has seen a huge increase in child poverty, rates of conviction for rape collapse, massive increase in NHS waiting times, and housing become unaffordable. Oh yeah, it's definitely the transwomen in bathrooms that are the biggest threat.

They won't because they can't.

Believeitornot · 27/09/2022 22:00

Person18885 · 27/09/2022 21:17

it doesnt matter what party you vote for, the whole system here is a mess, it needs massive reform, politics isnt what its supposed to be, at the end of the day it will always be some idiot making bad decisions until we reform

It does matter. Absolutely matters. It’s lazy to suggest otherwise and deep down you know that.

HMSSophia · 27/09/2022 22:07

I've given up on the British public. We clearly have the government we deserve. It's a fucking shame.

Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase · 27/09/2022 22:07

I wouldn’t worry about one person’s remark OP. I know at least two people who have voted Tory all their lives who are now saying they will never vote Tory again. I’m convinced that Labour will win the next general election. The tories have been absolutely abysmal. How any sane person could vote for them is beyond me

cardibach · 27/09/2022 22:07

Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 19:17

Much of their supporters are violent thugs and scare me quite frankly with their hate speech and anger, I assume that is why Angela has such a leading role as their role model, and their lack of awareness that there are other views, equally as important as theirs.

Their MPs are racist, and what happened today overshadowed the conference, and was just appalling.

I’m. ALabour e member. None of the supporters I know are violent thugs. Or racist.
what happened today that you say overshadowed the conference? What have I missed?

Florenz · 27/09/2022 22:08

"The right wing rags make a play for popularity by printing trash and appeal to base instincts. It works! They then weave in bullshit stuff about how the Tories are the best party for the economy."
If it works, why don't the left wing rags do the same? Print trash, appeal to base instincts, and then weave in stuff about how Labour are the best party for the economy?

cardibach · 27/09/2022 22:10

Unless you are taking about one racist comment which has resulted in suspension and an apology? When racist/sexist/whatever Tories just carry on…

Sunnyqueen · 27/09/2022 22:11

You would think that surely, SURELY by now these people would be thinking 'ok fine ill take a leap of faith' but no, they keep trotting out the mantra.

basilmint · 27/09/2022 22:14

Disappointed that Starmer has dismissed Proportional Representation - now would be the perfect time to bring in electoral reform.

I think what he actually said was that electoral reform wasn't a priority for gim. However, an analyst on R4 seemed to be suggesting that he doesn't want to spook traditional voters who like the First Past the Post system. The fact that the party as a whole seems on favour of it means it probably wouldn't be off the table in the future.

BloodAndFire · 27/09/2022 22:17

YABU.

I've never voted Tory. I've always been left wing. My grandparents were Communists and my parents were part of the 60s student protests in London. I voted Labour in every election of my life until 2010.

However, i'm also Jewish, as are my children, and I've never been as scared in my life as I was in December 2019. If Corbyn had won, I would genuinely have had to leave the city and country that have been home to me my whole life (and my children, parents and grandparents)

I have never cried as hard as I did on election day 2019. It meant the world to me that the UK did not elect an openly antisemitic leader and party.

I really, really hope that Starmer can tackle the remnants of the toxicity and antisemitism that came so close to destroying the Labour Party.

I am not going to be drawn into the fake 'genuine question', gaslighting, mockery, denial and whataboutery that made my life a living hell for much of the last decade. If you don't believe me, that's really fucking sad, but I know by now that entrenched, poisoned minds will remain that way.

I hope there is a future for a decent left-wing party in this country that is NOT founded on demonising and tormenting an ethnic minority. peace, out.

nancydroo · 28/09/2022 07:12

BloodAndFire · 27/09/2022 22:17

YABU.

I've never voted Tory. I've always been left wing. My grandparents were Communists and my parents were part of the 60s student protests in London. I voted Labour in every election of my life until 2010.

However, i'm also Jewish, as are my children, and I've never been as scared in my life as I was in December 2019. If Corbyn had won, I would genuinely have had to leave the city and country that have been home to me my whole life (and my children, parents and grandparents)

I have never cried as hard as I did on election day 2019. It meant the world to me that the UK did not elect an openly antisemitic leader and party.

I really, really hope that Starmer can tackle the remnants of the toxicity and antisemitism that came so close to destroying the Labour Party.

I am not going to be drawn into the fake 'genuine question', gaslighting, mockery, denial and whataboutery that made my life a living hell for much of the last decade. If you don't believe me, that's really fucking sad, but I know by now that entrenched, poisoned minds will remain that way.

I hope there is a future for a decent left-wing party in this country that is NOT founded on demonising and tormenting an ethnic minority. peace, out.

Exactly. Beautifully put.

Itsacafe · 28/09/2022 07:31

I voted for Lib Dems as they were the only open and effective opposition to Brexit. Disgusting that Labour took no clear position on Brexit. I want to get behind Labour but they are too uninspiring. Their message does not come across - they just seem to snipe from the sidelines (let's face it, there plenty to snipe about, so hardly a feat). I want to get behind Starmer - but what is it with him? He is uncomfortable to watch. So is Rainer. Unfortunately, I don't think they are a coherent, credible party. This Conservative populist govt have ruined the country, but I don't have any faith in Labour either. I will continue to vote Lib Dem as the lesser of three evils and fortunately we live in the Lib Dem Borough of Richmond, so it's not a wasted vote.

User135644 · 28/09/2022 08:27

Florenz · 27/09/2022 22:08

"The right wing rags make a play for popularity by printing trash and appeal to base instincts. It works! They then weave in bullshit stuff about how the Tories are the best party for the economy."
If it works, why don't the left wing rags do the same? Print trash, appeal to base instincts, and then weave in stuff about how Labour are the best party for the economy?

It doesn't work in a business sense. The likes of the Sun lose money hand over fist but they're useful to the business interests of billionaires (who own the press) to buy influence.