Labour would be even worse grrrr

[Explaintome]

In the pub last night, rolling news headlines on the TV and we talked briefly about rising interest rates/falling pound.

One man trotted out the now tired line "Labour would be even worse".

"Why?" I said, "what is it that they would do less well?" He couldn't answer, as I find is often the case with people who are certain Labour would be worse. They can't tell me why.

They may be right, they are certainly entitled to that view, but surely to be so convinced about any opinion you must also have some idea of why that is?

This is a middle aged man, does an ordinary, low level management/sales job. He'd tell you himself, he's not particularly clever and he's not interested in/doesn't undertlstand politics or the economy and yet he's so convinced of this view. It was probably unfair of me to challenge him knowing he wouldn't have an argument, but there seem to be a lot like him and frankly it's scary. 12 years and still people are convinced Tory is the best answer, even if they don't know why.

FWIW he's a nice man with other attributes, an encyclopedic music knowledge and good company provided you don't try and talk about the news 😆

That note was a joke and apparently it was something that was quite common do. The fact that David Cameron used it for his own nefarious purposes shows that he is a man devoid of any moral fibre. But what can you expect from a man who gambled the future of the country away just for the sake of power.

This

I agree. My parents in law say this a lot, but have no reason.

If they said labour would be worse because ...' and gave a reason Id be delighted.

They also cant say whats good about the conservatives - they dont seem to agree with a single policy but they are sure labour would be worse, without looking to see labours stance.

I really dont understand why the tories are considered to be better for the economy

Austerity - Countries who did not go down the austerity route have had better growth than the UK since 2010, and are looking far better placed to weather the current adverse conditions.

Brexit - Cameron gambled the future of the UK out of hubris, and Boris promoted Brexit as a way of winning populist support. Neither actually seemed to care that their actions would be disastrous for the UK economy.

Trickle-down Trussonomics - There's nothing that needs to be said about this, is there?

Covid and the war in Ukraine have been global events beyond the government's control, but their other actions have effectively tanked our economy and left the UK totally ill prepared to deal with these issues.

The 2008 crash was a similarly a global issue, not the fault of the UK government, but the Labour government of the day stepped up and addressed it. They didn't exacerbate the effects through the promotion of ridiculous ideologies like the tories have.

Time to stop these antisemitic smears about the current Labour Party - they are grossly offensive.

www.thejc.com/news/features/sir-keir-starmer-opens-up-about-his-family-s-friday-night-dinners-1.497647

After 12 years of Tory u turns and failed economic experiments, I fail to see how we would be worse off trying the alternative. FWIW, I imagine that Labour will need to have some kind of agreement with the Lib Dems and the other opposition parties anyway.

Mumsnet will always favour labour heavily . That’s the way it is on this site and it always has been.

Usually and historically, anyone who votes for the Tories gets trounced on immediately so this is a pointless thread really to be honest.

I doubt it. How many labour prime ministers have we had? This country is deeply Conservative. It took someone as charismatic and slick as Tony Blair to make labour electable. As soon as he was gone they started losing again even though Gordon brown was arguable more competent and more dedicated.

The data from the last 75 years shows that Labour borrow less and repay more than the Tories.

Most people prefer newspaper stories to data.

Fuck sake. You obviously haven't heard or accepted this fact before but EVERY FUCKING CHANCELLOR OF EVERY FUCKING GOVERNMENT LEFT A NOTE LIKE THAT OTS ONLY CAMERONS TORY PARTY WHO CHOSE TO USE A LONG RUNNING TRADITION TO SCORE POLITICAL POINTS excuse the shouty capitals but I thought everybody bloody knew this. I give up.

Because the media convinced the masses that the international financial crisis in 2008 was Gordon Brown's fault .... and millions are so clueless and poorly educated that they believe it.

Absolutely. This whole economic argument against Labour is painfully outdated. Look at what the Tories have done over the last 12 years and ask yourself how you could possibly be worse off under Labour.

Stupid people want an entertainer not a boring, intelligent, steady person who can do the job.

Can you suggest an institution that ISN'T instituationally racist or anti-semitic? Large bodies all harbour SOME people who are, and struggle to deal with them, to enforce their policies and deal with peple acting in bad faith. Labour did indeed have some anti-semitic members and botched dealing with them. Its also had a Jewish leader (recently) many Jewish people on its governing bodies (eg NEC) and many Jewish members - in fact as a proportion of the population Jewish people are overrepresented.

I don't want to jump on any Tory voters but I genuinely cannot understand how any of their track record is defensible.

This party know what a woman is? Well they don't seem to be doing very well at defending women's rights do they

The no money note was a bloody joke, all parties leave “jokes” around Downing Street for the incoming government.

Why not the note left by Maudling in 1964? It was basically the same thing. A note left by a government member to his successor. Difference being Maudling was a senior member of the cabinet.

But "Labour" "Corbyn" etc.

I honestly don't see any of what you said about the Gordon Brown years to be relevant to now. The issue over the 'note' may or may not have been appropriate but is that really a genuinely good reason to think about not voting Labour, 12 years after something that may or may not have been amusing?

As for the whole issue over Keir and trans issues - that is for each individual to decide for themselves - for me personally, at this moment and the perilous state we are in - I would look at the bigger picture - particularly given the amount of strong women in the Labour party who definitely believe in women's rights.

Also I understand where people are coming from talking about discrimination against certain groups of people in the Labour Party, this isn’t right, however that’s down to particular people within the party. Not the party itself. I’m willing to bet there are awful things said amongst all of the parties, conservative included (Boris is a perfect example). But you need to see the bigger picture.

what concerns me when I vote is how is this party going to help my own personal situation and the country as a whole. That mindset leaves me to stand by labour. Because conservatives only benefit the very small percentage of the most wealthy in our country (look at the tax break they have just given them!). The fact that everyone else is struggling so much and unable to put money back into the economy is going to end in disaster. We are heading for a crash under conservatives.

If you want to improve conditions for the majority of people in the country, labour is the only option. (It’s not perfect, but it’s all we have got).

Jeremy Corbyn had an absolute hatchet job done on him my the Tory media.

His policies were liberal and progressive.

But as you say, all you hear is 'at least it wasn't Corbyn'. Not sure what people were scared of, the free wifi or the living wage.

As racist as former PM Boris Johnson?

DH and I were chatting about a comedy sketch show, where the Consevative candidates go to someones home and basically say they are going to do things which mean he will lose his job, his home, his family will be destitute but still he says he will vote for them. Can't remember who it was , google has been no help so far, does anyone remember it , might have been Harry Enfield ?

MAny of the posts on this thread illustrate perfectly just how much power the right wing media have and how politically illiterate people are. The moment you dig into the data the picture on economic competence is clear - but people don't want data, they want soundbites. They don't want competence, they want entertainment. And so they get the government they deserve and drag the rest of us down with them.

Just thought it might have been spitting image ?