Labour would be even worse grrrr

[Explaintome]

In the pub last night, rolling news headlines on the TV and we talked briefly about rising interest rates/falling pound.

One man trotted out the now tired line "Labour would be even worse".

"Why?" I said, "what is it that they would do less well?" He couldn't answer, as I find is often the case with people who are certain Labour would be worse. They can't tell me why.

They may be right, they are certainly entitled to that view, but surely to be so convinced about any opinion you must also have some idea of why that is?

This is a middle aged man, does an ordinary, low level management/sales job. He'd tell you himself, he's not particularly clever and he's not interested in/doesn't undertlstand politics or the economy and yet he's so convinced of this view. It was probably unfair of me to challenge him knowing he wouldn't have an argument, but there seem to be a lot like him and frankly it's scary. 12 years and still people are convinced Tory is the best answer, even if they don't know why.

FWIW he's a nice man with other attributes, an encyclopedic music knowledge and good company provided you don't try and talk about the news 😆

It was Momentum and their insane suggestions like limiting personal inheritance to £275k over a lifetime that put me off.

Totally agree. That's what I meant in my previous post. You would have thought that the horrors we endured from Johnson would have given most people a reality check about choosing charisma over competence (not that I find Johnson charismatic, but other people seem to).

There's such rubbish on this thread. How can people possibly still support the tories? The country is in a bloody mess.

Some people would prefer a law breaking, racist, womanising liar than a sensible, steady slightly dull one. I bet you wouldn't say that about the local headteacher at school!

As for the 'he doesn't know what a woman is' I am afraid that I would vote for Labour based on the fact they are pledging to help the lower earners - lots of them are women. Including me. Whilst I can't vote on a single issue, as important as it is, I need to vote on what will help all.

So if Labour were to take power tomorrow after 23 years of Tory rule, there is loads of money left, right?

These threads always drive home that those amazing mail online readership figures aren’t exaggerated. It’s genuinely scary how much power it has to shape the political landscape.

@Summerhillsquare I think @waffless is equating Labour in the UK to the Communist party in Venezuela!

@waffless - having properly funded public services isn't Communism you know. 🙄

Never trust a Tory, any kind thereof.

I don't really understand why people moan about the Daily Mail. Left wing newspapers exist. the Guardian website is free to read. You can't make people read newspapers or news websites that you want them to read. Why not try making the left wing ones more popular?

Here we go!

it doesnt matter what party you vote for, the whole system here is a mess, it needs massive reform, politics isnt what its supposed to be, at the end of the day it will always be some idiot making bad decisions until we reform

Disappointed that Starmer has dismissed Proportional Representation - now would be the perfect time to bring in electoral reform.

Florenz the dailymail has facist roots and repeatedly prints misogynistic shite e.g slutshaming Angela Raynor because she recrossed her legs whilst wearing a skirt.

Have looked at the key points from Starmers speech, I have to say I was thoroughly unimpressed. There isn’t much meat there in terms of actual policy proposals, nothing that inspires (most of it was Tory bashing as opposed to providing an alternative vision), and it doesn’t inspire confidence that they have real workable plans for accomplishing any of the vague aspirations mentioned. So no, based on what I have seen I don’t think Labour would be better.

I don’t sit comfortably with any party, but I am much more interested in some of the Conservative ideas being floated, despite not being a fan of the mini budget. If Labour’s whole electoral strategy is ‘not Tory’, I can’t see them doing great things, even if they manage to squeak through a change in government.

That might be so but it doesn't stop people reading it. Why doesn't the Guardian try to become more popular instead of only printing negative stories that make people miserable?

Agree x1000. Why can’t someone give the Labour Party a serious makeover?? Why can they not innovate and see how boring and uninspiring they are. I just don’t get it. In 2022 in any other field, people would give it a total rebrand and repackage it into something brilliant. But no, the one area that does actually really matter, there is zero creativity. They need a complete overhaul to something modern, young, fresh, connected, efficient, polished, ‘normal’. I wish so badly I could just remake labour into something people felt was good!! There is so much creativity out there now and not a single sprinkle of it seems to go in the labour party’s direction!!

Please don't parrot the Conservatives unfounded misogynistic smears about Rayner. Even Bo Jo said it was unwarranted and apologised.
It's disgusting you've posted that and sad if that's the level of information you use to decide who to vote for.

I am not seeking a PM with buckets of charisma but a govt that will offer policies that will work towards making the economy benefit not only the richest and make it worse for everyone else.

I suggest watching Starmer’s speech today at the Labour conference. He has set out Labour’s stall and I am liking the policies. Of course a party can make pledges and may not fulfil them once in power but I am pleased that many of the policies Labour have set out at their conference this week are socially democratic in nature. Social democrats still work within a capitalist framework but do also intervene when the market produces such inequalities.

Labour pledges to invest in the NHS, green energy and "spread opportunity to all". Labour pledge to set up a publicly-owned green energy company within a year if he is elected, with 100% clean power by 2030. Labour said they would immediately reverse abolishing the top 45% tax rate. They would build much more council housing with Lisa Nandy yesterday describing housing isn’t a market. It’s a fundamental human right. Labour have pledged they would take on an extra 7,500 medical students every year, doubling the number of district nurses, and offering 10,000 extra nursing placements.

Politics in general in this country is still stuck in Victorian times for the most part. It needs a drastic overhaul.

Most people were a lot better off when Brown did that, and we were in less debt as a nation than we are now.
This "unsustainable" thing was myth used to justify austerity. Which hasn't worked, as the country is totally borked and still in huge debt.

I have never voted Labour but the Blair/Brown years were the best of my adult life (turned 18 in 1997,)

florenz I guess because the guardian might not believe in writing lies for sales, to become 'popular'

@Florenz, The right wing papers appeal because they offer simple solutions for complex challenges and play the blame game.

I have elderly neighbours who believe the right wing narrative as they have no critical thinking skills. They want simple solutions and catchy phrases and slogans. An elderly ex nurse was blaming the staff in the NHS rather than the funding issues and staff shortages. She had been trained for free, had subsided accommodation, low house prices and now a good pension.

I am a high earner but can't defend the last 12 years. The very, very rich have been protected - its a small club who perhaps do genuinely believe in trickle down..cynically I think they are just selfish. If you stand back and analyse the content you will see the themes.

The tories have shown they are financially reckless - anyone thinking otherwise needs to have their head examined

As I have written above, I like the policies Labour have announced this week at their conference but I agree Starmer dismissing PR I don’t like. The motion at the conference was for it and this time some of the unions voted for it. I know a motion is not binding but with some of the unions coming on board he may well revise not endorsing it before the next general election.

Forelock tuggers. Never get in between an Englishman and his beloved Tories.

The don't know what a woman is.

The right wing rags make a play for popularity by printing trash and appeal to base instincts. It works! They then weave in bullshit stuff about how the Tories are the best party for the economy.

Look at the state of the nation. Maybe it’s easier to read stories about celebrities than use your brain and engage with the absolute shit show that’s coming.

Many people won’t notice straight away that their pay packets won’t increase (unless you’re on £150k), that mortgages will go up (when they come off a fixed term mortgage), that their kids schools are crumbling. But when it does happen, it’ll probably be after the Tories have won in 2024 due to the ignorance of many voters.

I am sure there’s research somewhere that suggests that those who are right wing have a lower IQ. Makes fucking sense.