To be furious with adult dd

[Nolitoad]

I have 2 dc, dd (23) and ds (13). Dd does not live at home but I had her round for dinner last night. I was in the kitchen serving up and when I brought it in I saw that she had poured a glass of wine for herself, me and her brother.

I immediately remarked on this and said ds is not allowed to drink. She said really well he is when he is with me. DS has sleepovers at her house 1-2 times per month and has done since she moved out around a year ago. When I asked her what she meant it turns out she has being allowing him to drink when he stays over.

I didn’t want to have a big row with her in front of ds so just whisked the glass away from him. Later in the evening I asked her why she had allowed him to do this she told me my approach to alcohol is wrong and she said she wants to introduce him to alcohol in a safe and structured way. When I said it’s not her place to decide this she said the only way my approach is going to end is him drinking in secret in a park. I am really cross with her as he has been staying over at hers since he was 12 and she has been giving him alcohol during this time without mentioning it as she knows I would disagree. I know ds is also guilty of this and knows he is not allowed to drink so will deal with him also.

I messaged their father who said he didn’t know this was happening and it’s not ideal but it’s hardly the end of the world as we can’t micromanage their relationship.

AIBU to be really annoyed about this?

I was thinking this myself.

Ultimately she’s wrong for not accepting you saying you don’t agree with giving your son alcohol - you’re his parent and what you say goes so I’d look into why she feels like she’s right but let her know that no matter what she does not go against your parenting of your son.

I think stopping them seeing each other would be far worse for your DS then the effects of one or two glasses of wine.

Me too and it makes booze this big exciting thing. Hopefully the father can step in here and stop the op.

OP, with respect, this is a no-brainer, DD is/was wrong on all levels.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5Hbck3YD2qCHKZrvn8DMBgq/how-should-you-introduce-alcohol-to-your-teenager-if-at-all

As a PP suggested, maybe an adult-adult conversation and study the evidence for and against?

It's not a few sips though if it's a full glass.
DD is out of line. This is not her call.
I would stop the sleepovers for a while as I doubt she will respect your wishes.

As someone with similar age gaps between kids I have said you’re being unreasonable. When you ask your older child to look after the young one there is a trust there and you should be respectful of their choices as you are giving them that responsibility as it benefits you to have your younger child out for the night or being looked after.
Your daughter isn’t hiding it from you as she acted in the same way at your house too- she has grown up with your rules but has made her own mind up based on her choices and it sounds like you banning her from drinking didn’t work and ended up in bad choices and unsafe decisions. She’s therefore helping your son in the way she thinks best.
I agree she should have discussed it, but I’d reflect on why perhaps she didn’t. Do you tend to encourage open discussion? Or shut down communication when it doesn’t go as you wanted?
You are lucky to have an adult daughter who is close to her brother and you’d be very short sighted to discourage that relationship.

Isn't the argument that on the continent they do alcohol differently kind of pointless though? Even if you introduce alcohol at home like they may do in France etc, you're still bringing your child up in Britain where there is a heavy binge drinking culture for many. That wider culture will have a massive impact, perhaps especially when they've had alcohol drinking normalised from a younger age.

Britain isn’t a mono-culture though. It’s very diverse and having your own culture at home definitely can counter wider negative cultural influences.

YANBU at all.

Regardless of your opinion (personally I'd let a twelve year old taste it if asked but not have a whole glass), she's not the parent and she's massively overstepped.

If she does think you got it wrong with her then she's entitled to that view. But there are ways to help her brother that don't include pouring a twelve year old a glass of wine against his parents' wishes.

I think the idea that on the continent lots of teens and preteens are swigging wine is simply mistaken. Whilst having some wine at a meal is not forbidden it is far from normal practice in all families. I think having alcohol with your family and having alcohol in a club with your friends is totally different anyway. In the family I spent time with in France none of the young people showed the slightest interest in what the adults were drinking. I also never saw any encouragement to drink either.

My eldest DD is 10 years older than my youngest and I'd be incredibly angry if she did this when they were at this stage.

My husband grew up in a split family, and his dad gave him alcohol from a very young age, I think perhaps to keep him subdued and out of the way. He ended up with a terrible alcohol problem, and it contributed to the shit show that his life became. He gave it all up at 30 and has been teetotal for 15 years now.

I'm sure your daughter has good intentions, but it doesn't sound like she's got the knowledge or level of maturity to introduce this, especially as she's told you she thinks your approach is wrong, tough, you're the parent!

Although her idea is probably a good one (the UK has awful relationships with alcohol) she has no right in making this decision.

I wonder if because there’s a large age gap she took on a parent role when he was growing up.
Was she quite hands on with him?

I would tell her that you will look into this and find out the best approach but for now all alcohol stops and these sorts of decisions are up to his parents and not her.

This doesn’t need to be an argument or anything dramatic.

"(it’s very common on the continent and they have lower rates of binge drinking/drunkenness etc)"

France has very high alcoholism rate. (Not that I blame that on children occasionally having one glass of wine with Sunday lunch).

Can you point to the post that anyone said they were swigging booze? I think the opposite was said, that alcohol was not taboo and at this age a little wine with dinner if others were having it was permitted.

She is totally out of line in that she does not have parental responsibility for him so it is not her decision to make. She is clearly not mature enough to realise this. She is entitled to her own opinions that's where it ends until she has her own child. Would she take someone else's child for a haircut or to get their ears pierced or to see an over age rated film? Explain all this to her and unless she can agree to follow your rules she has to see her brother in your house.

"Whilst having some wine at a meal is not forbidden it is far from normal practice in all families."

I think it was probably pretty common 20 years ago. Even just having wine at lunch is declining in France now, probably because of more drink driving awareness.
It's not forbidden in the UK either.

If he is having a glass of dilute wine with a meal, that is a responsible approach.
If she is buying him cans of lager/cider etc then she is in the wrong.
12 or 13 is too young to be drinking alcohol like that.
The attitude in the UK towards alcohol is shocking - no wonder there is so much alcohol misuse.

She's probably right tbh

Yes that's why I said for many, not all 😊I think my point is the culture at home and in wider society may mesh better abroad in terms of binge drinking, so what you do at home here may not have as much of an impact if your child then falls into a wider community where binge drinking is prevalent.

It doesn't matter what 'others' do no matter where they are. What matters is that the parent has made a decision and others should respect that. Mine were allowed watered down wine at some meals, both refused and don't drink alcohol at all. I respect their choice.

YANBU. Your child, your choice. My dd is 14. She went to a friend house and was offered alcohol (I was asked first by the mum if this was ok). I wasn’t keen but said just a little. In the event, dd didn’t like it. But then started asking for me to buy a sweet alcoholic drink she thought she’d like. I refused. For reference to the French comments, dh is (born and bred) and he agrees with me.

It's really not her place to decide. But also, who gives a 12 Yr old wine?? Give him asgandy if she really thinks she's right. Otr low alcohol cider.

You don't have to drink you know? I've left it up to my children. I've explained what alcohol does to your body and brain. I've also spoken about how drinking in social situations can make it difficult to then do it without (how many people do you hear say they can't dance without a drink inside them?) It's not compulsory to introduce children to alcohol.
I've never said I'd be disappointed if mine drink I've just explained about looking after your friends and not going straight to spirits and if they themselves overdo it don't be afraid to call me. I have a 17 year old and 19 year old who don't drink. I think its now 25% of young people don't drink. Just stop drug pushing please.

Not her decision to make.
Also your son’s liver is not fully developed until he is 20-ish ( or so dr told me when dc was ill) so early alcohol is not a good idea.