To be furious with adult dd

[Nolitoad]

I have 2 dc, dd (23) and ds (13). Dd does not live at home but I had her round for dinner last night. I was in the kitchen serving up and when I brought it in I saw that she had poured a glass of wine for herself, me and her brother.

I immediately remarked on this and said ds is not allowed to drink. She said really well he is when he is with me. DS has sleepovers at her house 1-2 times per month and has done since she moved out around a year ago. When I asked her what she meant it turns out she has being allowing him to drink when he stays over.

I didn’t want to have a big row with her in front of ds so just whisked the glass away from him. Later in the evening I asked her why she had allowed him to do this she told me my approach to alcohol is wrong and she said she wants to introduce him to alcohol in a safe and structured way. When I said it’s not her place to decide this she said the only way my approach is going to end is him drinking in secret in a park. I am really cross with her as he has been staying over at hers since he was 12 and she has been giving him alcohol during this time without mentioning it as she knows I would disagree. I know ds is also guilty of this and knows he is not allowed to drink so will deal with him also.

I messaged their father who said he didn’t know this was happening and it’s not ideal but it’s hardly the end of the world as we can’t micromanage their relationship.

AIBU to be really annoyed about this?

YANBU to say it is not your DD's place to parent your DS.

However, I agree with your DD's belief that introducing alcohol in a small amount in a controlled, family environment is better than insisting on complete abstinence until they're 18 and can suddenly do whatever they want to. I don't think she's gone about this in the right way though. She's not the mother and should have had a conversation with you if she was worried her brother was going to try drinking on his own/with his mates and go overboard.

I don't know what you can do at this stage, as you don't want to stop them seeing each other. Try having an adult conversation with your DD, listen to what she has to say and try to find some common ground as a way of agreeing rules moving forward. Realistically, you have no way of controlling what she does or what your DS does when he is with her without you present. The only think to do is explain how you want things to be moving forward and why it's important.

What @UrslaB said 6 upthread. She's trying to give him a chance to have a different relationship from alcohol from what she did as a teen. You're lucky to have a second chance to try to get to the bottom of that. Can you try to ask and listen, not just shut it all down because it's your way or the highway?

I'm not suggesting that 12 is the right age or it's ok, but you've got an opportunity to improve your relationship & respect with both of them here (or drive a bigger wedge with both if you continue as you are!) Talk through 12 is still too young because liver damage & brain development etc - BUT what did DD feel was too draconian 8 years ago, what does she feel would have made a difference/given her a better relationship with alcohol (and obviously a more honest one with you!)?

If you walk back a bit from tech bans & ending sleepovers, you should all be able to find a better understanding of what's gone on with your daughter, and maybe collectively agree when WOULD be an appropriate age for one beer & why - 15? 16?

It would be good to get to the bottom of what DD was up to when, and why you feel she's now overcompensating TOO far in the other direction, without resorting to 'because I say so'.

If he were 16 or 17.. not 12 or 13!
Her brother is not a carbon copy of her as a teen, either.

Although I agree with children being given a small, watered down drink from a young age (12 seems about fair to me) every now and then, this is not your DDs decision.

I grew up in a household where the old bit of alcohol was allowed, meaning I learnt my limits from an early age

Studies have shown that kids introduced early to booze are more likely to be heavy drinkers. This “teaching them” thing is a load of crap. Do you teach them to take drugs as well? And last time I looked ….we don’t live in bloody France 🙄

Those people saying that children introduced to alcohol at an early age are wrong. Studies actually show that children drinking from an early age are far more likely to be heavy drinkers.

But in this country we have normalised alcohol to the extent that not drinking is almost seen as a taboo, and anyone who doesn’t or doesn’t allow their pre teens to do so is considered to be in the wrong.

And I wouldn’t be assuming there’s some deep psychological issue going on with your DD. She’s 23. She’s an adult. If she drinks too much now then it’s because she is choosing to do so. It has nothing what so ever to do with you not giving her alcohol as a teen. There doesn’t need to be some deep-rooted issue, she’s just controlling and relishing the opportunity to let her brother do something she wasn’t allowed to and then rubbing it in your face.

I’m one of those teenagers who were allowed a drink at 12 and I’m German, close to the French boarder. I’m not alcoholic, have never had a problem with excessive consumption and can’t even remember a hangover, even not as a teenager. I like a glass of wine with a meal, an aperitif or a bit of liquor over a dessert. But, I don’t like getting wasted and still find the British pub culture bizarre. Why would one want to drink large amounts in a very short amount of time????

Are you kidding me? Have you not read the research that shows that the earlier the exposure to alcohol the higher the incidence of alcohol issues in the future? Please please stop pretending it’s ok to use that very old excuse to give children alcohol

And just because some people were given booze by their parents with no Ill effects doesn’t negate the studies. It’s like those “my grandad smoked 40 a day and lived too 90” anecdata

This ☝️ OP I think you should stop your son staying with his adult sister until he is much older.

Your daughter is right.

But regardless, if you're relying on her for childcare (unclear why your son is having sleepovers) then this needs to be seen in the same way as grandparents giving younger children lots of sweets on occasion. The rules are different at her house. Do you trust her to care for her younger brother? If you do, respect that she's the adult in charge when he's with her and that your son isn't a primary school aged child any more. Do you trust that if he didn't want wine he'd say no to it?

Jesus Christ you mumsnetters love a reach don’t you 🤦🏼‍♀️….where do you have the audacity to say such shit from a few posts written by a stranger on the internet, what a bizarre thing to say! The woman has barely said anything and you’re calling her difficult to communicate with based on a a total of about 50 sentences where she’s trying as best she can to explain a tense situation. Honestly you’re weird.

And OP please ignore the utter crap that some of these creatures are coming out with! Everytime I read a thread on here I think it can’t be possibly get any worse than the far reaching imaginative BS that the previous one spewed up and yet here we are! You’re “jealous” because your DD gave your DS alcohol at 12 and he might prefer her over you….what am I reading 🤦🏼‍♀️

The whole idea that parents must give in lest they lose their children’s respect is pure crap based on people’s inability or unwillingness to adequately parent their children because they’re simply unable or unwilling to tell them no.

The research is very clear that giving children alcohol at an early age is more likely to lead to them being heavier drinkers as adults. People simply trot out the line to justify their own normalisation of drinking.

And no “I drank as soon as I could walk and it never did me any harm” is up there with “I smoked 40 a day/lived on fatty foods and never died of cancer/heart disease.”

I know at least one person who was allowed alcohol as a child and who died of sorosis of the liver when he was 26.

I know at least one person who was allowed alcohol as a child and who died of sorosis of the liver when he was 26.

And due to my former career, I know hundreds who didnt.

There is a massive difference between allowing kids to learn, in a safe and supervised way, about the taste and effects of alcohol and "yes love crack on, drink what you like!".

The only issue I have with the DD's handling of it is the alcopops. My kids have all been offered alcohol with meals or on special occasions from the age of 13 or so but it was "proper" alcohol.....IE its doesnt taste like vimto with vodka in it. Beer or wine (not even cider as it is sweet) only. Eldest doesnt drink at all. Second does but rarely. Third does when she isnt at work or Uni the next day (rare). Fourth (17) will have a drink at Xmas or at parties but one glass lasts her hours. Fifth (16) has tried a couple of things, didnt like them and doesnt drink at the moment. Youngest is 11 so we will see.

12 is too young to be introducing this, just my opinion.

Absolutely. There are clearly other factors that also contribute to whether someone becomes a heavy drinker, which could include genetics, experience of trauma or family environments. But there is also clear evidence that drinking too early can be a factor. Why would anyone take that risk?

Some seem to see it as a weird sort of innoculation “oh she has a drink with me at Sunday lunch she won’t drink with her peers”. Magical thinking!

We don’t encourage it or allow it or give it to under 16s (illegal). But we are not draconian Victorian parents about it they have to make their own choices when out and about.

What else is she going to introduce him too without your knowledge?

Don't stop them spending time together but tell her under no circumstances is she to give him alcohol and if she continues then she won't be staying over any more
That's it!
It wasn't her decision to make

Don't stop them spending time together but tell her under no circumstances is she to give him alcohol and if she continues then she won't be staying over any more

en no the trust is gone. I certainly would not have him staying over again.

Everyone realises alcohol is a poison, right?

I think your DD is OOO. Wait until he gets to 16 then his body has half a chance of detoxifying properly!

NTW in France/Italy wine is generally watered down for kids it's not normally full strength!

Its not her place.....but shes right!

She's right to give alcohol to her 12 year old brother?
I hope you don't practice the same at home.

Its not her place.....but shes right

no she's not and if this was reverse gender you'd be saying he was grooming her.