To ask you to think twice about eating chicken regularly

[Tigofigo]

...it's just not sustainable for us to consume as much as we do.

Intensive chicken farming is polluting and destroying our rivers and also potentially causing breathing difficulties and lung issues in those who live near farms spraying chicken / other animal manure as fertilizer.

Really worrying too, at a time when govt are ripping up EU regs on environmental laws that will further destroy our rivers and the animals, plants and people that rely on them (along with the shit already pumped into them...).

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/25/chicken-farm-giant-linked-to-river-wye-decline-was-sued-over-water-blight-in-us

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/14/muck-spreading-could-be-banned-to-reduce-air-pollution

inews.co.uk/news/brexit-bonfire-environment-regulations-otters-dolphins-birds-conservationists-1875799

As a keen angler you've only got to look at the state of the river Wye......YANBU

YABU. Chicken is the most efficient form of animal protein for food/resources input to output. It’s 1.6kg of feed to 1kg chicken deadweight.

It not just not eating meat though it's that you have to have the vegan version of everything and they are always more expensive so if you are out and buying ice creams for the family the vegan version if you can get it are more expensive and stuff like that, it's a bit like when people have to eat gluten free but that unfortunately isn't a choice like being vegan is.

What is it specifically that makes you think a human life is more valuable to nature than an animal life?

Well yeah nature doesn’t give a fuck but I can’t understand people who don’t value themselves over animals. Or understand there is a hierarchy of life that we place value on accordingly. Like, a dog obviously has more value to humans than cockroaches and we act accordingly.

Yet rather than use that intelligence to ensure the planet (the only place that we can physically exist) and all of its inhabitants are protected and cared for we use it to destroy and justify abuse

Better now than literally any point in human history so don’t know what you are on about. As for animals, we have concepts like animal welfare that are very new but there. I dare say animals don’t have this concept at all 😆

The majority of humans are an absolute cancer on the Earth and the sooner we face natural correction the better

Would you say that about all living things on this planet? That all living things are cancer on the planet? Maybe you would 🤔

It's just a shame that those of us who actually care will be impacted as much as those who don't give a fuck

You won’t be impacted quite as much as you think.

Much cheaper to eat a vegan diet.

You do you.stop preaching and respect o t her people's rights to make their own decisions

That’s just a typically lazy position that ‘progressives’ take because they are not smart enough to invent their way out of a problem.

Condescending and sneery.

Have a look at the latest IPCC report and get scared.

Scientists all over the world agree. And you only have to look at the extreme weather events caused by man that are happening due to climate change of which animal production is a big part. But the biggest is fossil fuels.

I still eat meat but I have cut way down. I eat too much dairy though.

You tried to justify the mistreatment of animals by humans based on the fact some animals die in gruesome ways in the wild.

As you alluded to humans are part of the natural world so I was asking if, based on that logic, you find it justifiable to harm humans because they also die in gruesome ways in the "wild".

I suspect your answer is "no" and that you are similar to so many other people who consider humans to be a special case, that exists both outside and inside of nature depending on the point you want to make.

Your comment about humans evolving as part of the food chain and eat meat is a perfect illustration if this.

You claim it is OK to eat meat because we evolved to be part of the food chain, fine. But we didn't evolve to have meat at every meal or have a choice of pork, chicken, fish, beef, lamb, venison, etc available to us 365 days a year.

Our intelligence allowed us to escape the usual barriers nature imposes on populations and grow far beyond what is naturally sustainable or desirable. As such, we should have been using our intelligence to find ways to feed the population sustainably and in balance with nature. Instead we have exploited and decimated the planet to indulge a small portion of the global population's taste preferences, to the detriment of both the planet and developing countries.

If you were advocating for a return to more natural ways of raising and consuming meat I'd agree with people eating meat, if you want to hunt, kill and clean your meat fine by me (so long as it didn’t result in the decline of the species you wanted to eat). But justifying industrial scale animal agriculture on the basis that "humans evolved to eat meat" is just wrong.

Can you set out a weekly shop?

I do really hate how people are so callous towards these billions of poor animals. It's very transparent that your faux ease and your derisiveness of vegan alternatives are a defence mechanism because you know it's shit.

I'm not even a vegan but I know I should be. I'm not going to pretend to justify why I'm not vegan though and pretend it's all okay. It's laziness/convenience/affordability/enjoyment of meat products that stop me being vegan, but endeavour to go plant based wherever I can and plan to gradually increase this.

There are so so many ways to get protein in a human diet that do not require meat, and plenty of them require no animal products at all.

As with so many things, the problem is that most people are safely sheltered away from the carnage that is the animal farming industry. If we had to go to the abattoirs' to buy our meat and see the way the animals suffer in life and in death, I am sure 90% of people would swear off meat. And that would be enough.

I don't even have a problem with eating meat in principle. But as usual humans have found a way to make a natural practice a fucking carnival of horror and induce suffering on a massive scale. It's appalling. It's hard to pay £18 a chicken the same way it's hard to pay £15 a t shirt you could get from primark for £3 as long as there's a bit of child labour involved to cut costs..

We need to wake up and realise that the rate at which we consume things is simply, unsustainable in the most basic definition of the word.

Oh don’t be so ridiculous.

Humans > animals. It’s really that simple and if you can’t see that I think something’s gone really wrong somewhere in your education.

Our intelligence allowed us to escape the usual barriers nature imposes on populations and grow far beyond what is naturally sustainable or desirable. As such, we should have been using our intelligence to find ways to feed the population sustainably and in balance with nature. Instead we have exploited and decimated the planet to indulge a small portion of the global population's taste preferences, to the detriment of both the planet and developing countries

Literally this. I'm so sick of people not being able to see how abnormal everything we do is, and realise if we're smart enough to do what we've done already, we're smart enough to fix it.

£18 for a chicken! Everyone reading this is going to think you are a gullible fool. Which doesn't exactly help your cause!

Not with the various diary requirements my kids have it isn't.

I didnt justify mistreatment, I compared your comment of a sheep having an early death (in your view) to a sheep having an early death at the hands/paws of its main predator.

I dont view the short lives of animals that we eat as mistreatment in and of itself

And yes we have evolved to eat meat when we want because we have farmed it, evolution hasnt ended, we are still evolving, farming was part of that.

Personally I dont eat huge quantities of meat, unfortunately my nemesis is cheese which of course is also part of animal husbandry, but industrial scale animal agriculture isnt 'wrong' any more than industrial scale agriculture of anything is wrong. They are neither right nor wrong.

We are not vegan but vegetarian. Much cheaper but that's because we dont eat fake meat. CBA to set out a weekly shop but it is usually about 60 quid a week for 3 adults ( no alcohol, v little processed food). Lentils, veggies, eggs, yoghurt and cheese. Asian diet with the occ Mexican or pasta once a week. Probably would be boring for other people.

Eat little. But the best you can afford

I haven't read any other contributions on this thread, so I apologise if I'm repeating what's already been said. I don't want to read anything which will haunt me.

I haven't eaten meat for 30 years, but non-veggie friends often suggest that a little chicken would be fine - much easier than eating red meat. I don't think so. Chicken slaughter is more mechanised than that of large animals and some appalling things are involved. I'm not going to spell them out here.

Chickens have the misfortune to not be against anyone's religion, so million upon million of them are eaten every year.

Having known many chickens as pets throughout my life I can vouch for the fact that they are all individuals with personalities - and you really couldn't enjoy eating one if you'd kept them as pets. Counter-intuitively, the 2 battery rescue ones were the most friendly and funny of all.

I wish someone would give these poor creatures a break. At the very least, we should expect to pay more to eat them. They were a luxury once, and should be again, as should all meat, I think. If people must eat it, then value it and treat it with respect. No-one is going to die or suffer health problems by not eating meat at every meal.

Humans > animals. It’s really that simple and if you can’t see that I think something’s gone really wrong somewhere in your education

Life would be a lot easier if you stopped pretending that your personal opinions are empirical fact.

Also, it actually is a complete straw man anyway. Who cares if someone or everyone considers animal life of "equal value" to human life. The question when it comes to factory farming is "does this sentient being deserve to live a short miserable life of suffering and then be horrifically mass killed so humans have some convenient processed chicken nuggets in the supermarket freezer 247/365".

You don't have to believe that animals are equal to humans to believe they shouldn't suffer the way we make them do.

I'm not entirely convinced by your argument OP. We have a chicken farm behind is, they have really improved their welfare practices over the 20 years plus I've lived here not least because by farming less intensively they actually had far more survive to be ready for slaughter, so it actually makes business sense to operate that way.
Imported chicken however is another story, and should be avoided if at all possible.
Muck spreading - there's much more of it going on currently because the price of artificial fertiliser has gone through the roof due to Russia/Ukraine war.

Unfortunately people think organic and free range equals happy life for the chicken. It's really not. They aren't in cages but they are rammed into massive sheds. It's only a step better but people convince themselves it's all daffodils and rainbows

I think it would be helpful for people to see but I think the person I asked was vegan

My main dishes I cook are curries, it does get boring after a while. I dont like mexican food and try to avoid pasta but am not always successful

I interested in quantities, particularly for families with children with lunch box options. I think theres a bit of a problem with some schools not allowing nut or legumes to be taken in. I eat a lot of nuts.

Just eat other stuff.

But also you don’t have to be perfect. It isn’t all or nothing. A lot of people doing something is better than only a few doing it perfectly.

My kids aren’t vegetarian/vegan but they have more vegan food than before I became almost vegan. Also, if I’m cooking them a meal with meat and there is some left over, I’ll eat it rather than chuck it away.

My kids prefer plant milk to dairy milk (even though it took me about 6 months to like it) , they love the vegan ice cream and prefer vegetarian sausages as they don’t have gristle and the taste is the same (I don’t eat sausages). The processed stuff like chicken nuggets taste the same whether meat or vegetarian (I also don’t eat it but my kids sometimes do and they can’t tell the difference).

My kids don’t care if it does or doesn’t contain meat/fish as long as they enjoy eating it. They are also open to trying new stuff but that may be because I have always cooked a big variety of meals from all over the world.

So in my opinion, people should be open to trying new things. They should also take responsibility for their actions and consumption. Have a real look at how animals are raised and tortured and killed and look into the impact on the environment.