To ask you to think twice about eating chicken regularly

[Tigofigo]

...it's just not sustainable for us to consume as much as we do.

Intensive chicken farming is polluting and destroying our rivers and also potentially causing breathing difficulties and lung issues in those who live near farms spraying chicken / other animal manure as fertilizer.

Really worrying too, at a time when govt are ripping up EU regs on environmental laws that will further destroy our rivers and the animals, plants and people that rely on them (along with the shit already pumped into them...).

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/25/chicken-farm-giant-linked-to-river-wye-decline-was-sued-over-water-blight-in-us

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/14/muck-spreading-could-be-banned-to-reduce-air-pollution

inews.co.uk/news/brexit-bonfire-environment-regulations-otters-dolphins-birds-conservationists-1875799

For those who like lamb but struggle to afford it; by far the cheapest way of buying it is to find a farm prepared to do you a lamb box. I appreciate totally this will be out of the reach for a lot of people (and others won't have freezer room) as it requires a high initial outlay. However I can get half a lamb for £100 which is roughly 10kg meat and that keeps us going for months.

You do also need to be prepared to eat all the lamb and if it's a local farm they will generally take requests on how you want to process it (lamb breast vs burgers vs sausages vs mince).

What requires them to eat meat?

Mwahahahahaha an 18 pounds chicken
No wonder the journos always pick up on these 'look at the weird and wonderful world of Mumsnet' threads that end up in the daily Mail.'it's quite.literally an alternative universe at times

If everyone agreed to eat smaller an less frequent portions of meat (which is better for you anyway btw) and we made it less normal to have meat multiple times every single day, I honestly reckon that alone would make such a difference in demand and farming culture.

Business listen to consumer demand. If millions of people decided that they no longer wanted to eat meat that wasn't reared well and fed naturally, they would adapt their products to meet that demand. It would take a while but it would happen.

Billions of people in the world eat meat but can only afford small amounts. It's not those nations causing the problem, it's developed countries' insidious demand for obscene amounts of meat that are the issue.

Have a look at the latest IPCC report and get scared

I read the IPCC AR5 and saw a lot of weasel words because they are unsure but even then, there was nothing apocalyptic in it, more people should read it and calm TF down. We should be wary of modelling (ie garbage in, garbage out)

What is so funny about that I genuinely don't get it - my mum bought an extra large organic free range chicken last week and it was £18.

Yes Ive done that before, but half a lamb about 5 years ago was 50 quid!!!

But as you say the freezer room needed just makes it unsustainable for us. We have two freezers and one is rammed with my batch cooking, no room for joints of meat.

But also you don’t have to be perfect. It isn’t all or nothing. A lot of people doing something is better than only a few doing it perfectly

This is really important. I think a lot of people, myself included, have tried veganism and when it gets to a point where it feels unsustainable, "give up" which usually means going back to exactly how they ate before, which is very meat heavy.

I'm trying to get into a head space where I don't beat myself up for eating McNuggets and a milkshake once a month or have chicken gravy with Christmas dinner. If everyone cut down for the welfare of the planet and the welfare of the animals, at least even if no conditions changed billions less animals would be subjected to that life, and farming billions less animals a year is going to make an impact of the environment.

Sensory issues, deficiencies due to varying medical conditions, aversions to various foods due to medical conditions, allergies.

I'm sure you'll come back with all the answers though 🙄

As I say, morals cost money.

As such, we should have been using our intelligence to find ways to feed the population sustainably and in balance with nature

You can’t balance nature, it’s literally out of human control. Nature without humanity is chaotic and unpredictable, earth has been a hostile environment incapable of any life whatsoever in the past, and when it has life, there have been many mass extinction events. No reason to respect it all that much.

Seriously.

Thanks, that would be worth thinking about for us, we have got an extra freezer in the garage and at the moment it's full as I think you fill to the space that's there but it would be worth it to wind down the freezer and make room for it as it would save quite a bit of money

We import 800,000 tons of chicken from Thailand every year. The slaughter house down the road slaughters 10,000 chickens every hour. It rins all day,every day. The hens/broilers are not fed for at LEAST (hollow laugh) 24 hours before slaughter. They are frightened,dehydrated and hungry.
The cruelty and suffering these animals endure is worse than you can imagine.

By all means,shit a dead animal out your arse but don't kid yourself there is any humanity involved. Organic/red tractor/ local etc means fuck all.
They stand side by side as they are plunged into boiling hot electrified water.

I cook different stuff all the time so I don’t have a standard weekly shop. But meat and fish are more expensive than plants.

but last week for example:
1.west African peanut stew thehappyfoodie.co.uk/recipes/african-vegan-peanut-stew/

1. vegan bibimbap my own version but here is an idea biancazapatka.com/en/vegan-bibimbap/
2. My own version of Fabada Asturiana www.anediblemosaic.com/giveaway-winner-recipe-for-fabada-asturiana-asturian-bean-stew/
3. www.gousto.co.uk/cookbook/vegan-recipes/vegetable-noodles-silky-cashew-nut-sauce

each meal enough to do a few meals/dinners/lunches.

Tasty and nutritious food. No meat alternatives. Not particularly cheap ingredients but still cheaper than buying animal products.

As with so many things, the problem is that most people are safely sheltered away from the carnage that is the animal farming industry. If we had to go to the abattoirs' to buy our meat and see the way the animals suffer in life and in death, I am sure 90% of people would swear off meat. And that would be enough

My dd works in a chicken farm, my ds works in a pig farm, we are all well aware where out meat comes from thanks.

Listen, my kids aren’t vegan and they have no sensory issues. If you can’t then you can’t and that’s fine.

Just a lot of people can and it is cheaper and it is tasty. Just needs a bit of researching and trying stuff out and being a bit open minded. It isn’t at all boring lentils. It is so tasty, so nutritious and much better for everyone and everything.

You haven't really answered why though.

Laws are designed by and for humans so it's not a great metric for value. In fact laws are more often designed by and for a paricular society so it's an even worse metric than first thought.

For example, 100 years ago in the west the life of a straight white man would have been considered more valuable than that of a women, homosexual or black man (and you could argue that this is still the case in many societies across the world) using that metric. But I'd hope must of us would argue that that was/is wrong.

So no, laws aren't a good indicator of the value of a life.

Neither is using the position of a species on the food chain to value their lives. Phytoplankton and plants are near the bottom of the marine and terrestrial food chains but without them everything dies.

To me value is all about contribution. The human species, as a whole, takes far more from the planet than it contributes to it, but at the same time has the potential to innovate and create beyond anything else. Plants and animals may not be able to invent like us but they ensure the world remains a habitable and pleasant place for us to live.

Our greater intelligence means we have a greater responsibility and until we use that for the benefit of the planet instead of ourselves I will always disagree with the notion that a human life is more valuable than an animal life, at least at a species level.

I've never seen a chicken that cost £18?
I have always bought free range eggs and chickens and pay about £8 for a FR chicken from Aldi.
It's obviously more expensive but we eat less.
The problem is that many people cannot afford the luxury of putting animal welfare above their budget. Not all families want to be vegetarian.
Cheap meat feeds people.

Thanks the top one is something I have cooked before, didnt know it was an actual recipe!! Or had a name

Your others come up with page not found

Oh aye, rice, beans and veg. Famously extortionate.

This is really tasty www.lazycatkitchen.com/vegan-bao-buns-pulled-jackfruit/

Vegan pavlova - cookveggielicious.com/vegan-aquafaba-pavlova-coconut-cream-berries

i make vegan tempura all the time - peppers, onions, cauliflower, butternut squash, mushrooms, sweet potato, aubergines - dipped in broth made from seaweed instead of fish stock

vegan sushi too - shiitake mushrooms cooked in soy and sugar. Spinach with tahini and maple syrup, avocado, cucumber, pepper, carrots. Okra.

all very kid friendly even if they don’t eat all the elements

A lot of supermarkets only have the smaller free range chicken mainly, we have had them from Waitrose and they are about £10-£12 which are similar size to the £4 ones, the larger ones are mainly in stock at Christmas, I think the posters were probably talking about larger ones from the butcher rather than supermarkets that cost £18 or maybe it was just before Christmas

This is a brilliant post. Again if people choose to eat meat that's their choice, but the bending and breaking to try and justify or dismiss the truth is quite something.

I only buy local farm meat directly including chicken. And I have my own chickens for eggs.
Far better to eat less meat but buy better quality. I rarely eat meat at restaurants unless source is known.
Just ordered 1/2 a lamb and some beef for the freezer. By doing this we use all the meat rather than just the common cuts and anything we don't like, the dogs devour.
Living rurally and knowing local farmers we're not ripped off. £18 for a chicken?!

Eat lamb. Order it direct from a small producer preferably someone who keeps rare breeds. If they say I haven’t got any now but I’m taking orders for x date all the better as they are not using grain feed only grass.
You should be able to choose how uou want the cuts too.
If you like chicken try partridge when it’s in season, it’s had a much nicer life than a chicken and has made a major contribution to the rural economy.

Yes not sure where the myth that eating a veggie or vegan diet is more expensive. Bizarre. Sure its good to be more aware perhaps of nutrition and ensuring you get x, y and z in your diet, but it's not like all omnivores have balanced diets containing everything our body needs just because they eat meat.