My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

AIBU?

AIBU to join street protests to demand a general election

163 replies

Heyyebskeikwbevg · 24/09/2022 10:11

Lots of people horrified by KK’s mini budget and vision for our country, myself included.

Will you protest out on the streets and demand a general election?

YANBU - Yes I will be out on the streets as soon (as someone else organises it!)

YABU - No, they have been elected and we have no right to demand a general election

OP posts:
Report

Am I being unreasonable?

417 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
39%
You are NOT being unreasonable
61%
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 12:43

ImNotGreta · 24/09/2022 12:34

Fine, you don’t like the current system, so out you go and organise your protest.

Or, more likely, just whine on here about how unfair you find it, as most people seem to do.

What I don’t get though is why you think I and others ought to care that you think it’s unfair.

What I don’t get though is why you think I and others ought to care that you think it’s unfair.

Because fairness is the bedrock of a civilised society. I assume you like living in a civilised society, as opposed to an uncivilised one?

If people feel something is unfair you’re likely to stir their anger. Too many angry people and you get riots. Not a good recipe. Better to start off with fair (but firm, so as not to be exploited).

‘A riot is the language of the unheard,' Martin Luther King Jr

So it’s wise to listen. Truss is clearly not a good listener…

Report
DuckBilledFattypus · 24/09/2022 12:49

What would be unfair is if people were able to force a GE whenever they wanted, just because they don't like the party in power. Because that would work both ways. If labour got in and Tory voters forced a GE to force them out, imagine the cries of how unfair it would be. It would just go back and forth continuously. Ridiculous idea. And a change of leader is no reason to force a GE, people vote for their MO / a party not the leader. It's then the party members who decides who their leader will be.

Report
ImNotGreta · 24/09/2022 12:57

CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 12:43

What I don’t get though is why you think I and others ought to care that you think it’s unfair.

Because fairness is the bedrock of a civilised society. I assume you like living in a civilised society, as opposed to an uncivilised one?

If people feel something is unfair you’re likely to stir their anger. Too many angry people and you get riots. Not a good recipe. Better to start off with fair (but firm, so as not to be exploited).

‘A riot is the language of the unheard,' Martin Luther King Jr

So it’s wise to listen. Truss is clearly not a good listener…

A few of the normal suspects banging on about how unfair it is is neither here nor there, and the normal lefty threat about how if they don’t get their way there’ll be riots is just pathetic.

Report
YouSirNeighMmmm · 24/09/2022 12:58

Lockheart · 24/09/2022 10:12

Protest what you like OP, unreasonable doesn't come into it.

I think it would be unreasonable to protest that the government is failing to do as much as it can to help the rich.

Report
Nat6999 · 24/09/2022 13:03

Liz Truss won't last long, it is rumoured there are letters going in to the 1922 committee already.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:23

DuckBilledFattypus · 24/09/2022 12:49

What would be unfair is if people were able to force a GE whenever they wanted, just because they don't like the party in power. Because that would work both ways. If labour got in and Tory voters forced a GE to force them out, imagine the cries of how unfair it would be. It would just go back and forth continuously. Ridiculous idea. And a change of leader is no reason to force a GE, people vote for their MO / a party not the leader. It's then the party members who decides who their leader will be.

Even Jacob Rees-Mogg’s view is that a new leader should come with a general election. He’s on record… and he’s a Conservative with a big C.

It’s not fair to impose a leader that wasn’t the face of the GE. The face of the GE impacts voters decisions. Boris was a vote winner, Truss is not…

What would be unfair is if people were able to force a GE whenever they wanted, just because they don't like the party in power.

That’s not true. Stop distorting the request. Obviously there would be conditions for petitioning a general election. The people would need grounds… a new leader making drastic changes would be fair grounds.

So, if the new leader Truss wasn’t making radical changes that would likely damage the country then that’s fair and just grounds for people calling a general election.

Pound sinks as investors question huge tax cuts

Truss has not got a proper mandate to take gambles with her ideology. She was not elected by the people as the PM at the general election. The people have grounds to voice their discontent.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:24

So, if the new leader Truss was* (as she is) making radical changes that would likely damage the country then that’s fair and just grounds for people calling a general election.

Report
DuckBilledFattypus · 24/09/2022 13:25

A few of the normal suspects banging on about how unfair it is is neither here nor there, and the normal lefty threat about how if they don’t get their way there’ll be riots is just pathetic.

The lefty believe in democracy, until it doesn't go their way. Then they will wage war, until their version of 'democracy' that should suit them, and not people that don't agree with them. Firm but fair it is not. Not that it matters, as labour are rarely in power, and they're so far down the rabbit hole that they're unelectable. And the reduction of taxes, NI, new grammar schools etc will likely be a Tory vote winner.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:28

ImNotGreta · 24/09/2022 12:57

A few of the normal suspects banging on about how unfair it is is neither here nor there, and the normal lefty threat about how if they don’t get their way there’ll be riots is just pathetic.

I said civilised society. Keeping the peace is a responsibility that comes with power.

Truss is being irresponsible.

Understanding how people work is not ‘lefty’ or ‘righty’. It’s a basic understanding of how humans work… having an emotional and psychological understanding of the human race is useful to all sides.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:34

DuckBilledFattypus · 24/09/2022 13:25

A few of the normal suspects banging on about how unfair it is is neither here nor there, and the normal lefty threat about how if they don’t get their way there’ll be riots is just pathetic.

The lefty believe in democracy, until it doesn't go their way. Then they will wage war, until their version of 'democracy' that should suit them, and not people that don't agree with them. Firm but fair it is not. Not that it matters, as labour are rarely in power, and they're so far down the rabbit hole that they're unelectable. And the reduction of taxes, NI, new grammar schools etc will likely be a Tory vote winner.

Jacob Rees-Mogg is a big C Conservative. He is on record saying that in his view a new leader ought to come with a general election.

Why do you think that’s undemocratic?

And I’m not a lefty or righty btw. I judge based on the facts at the time.

The majority was unusual in 2019 and it was won through Boris as leader. Not Truss. She has not earned her place as PM with a majority through a general election.

Report
SilverDragonfly1 · 24/09/2022 13:39

We've had two extra elections, both when the country was headed by incompetent leaders of an ever more right wing and floundering party. Both times proved to be quite pointless. This time the PM has been voted in by tory party members rather than standing unopposed. This is what a largely silent majority actually want. Those of us who don't want it have no rights at all to change any of it. We could have a monthly GE and things wouldn't change- people are going to go out there and re-elect this party regardless of facts and logic. Really the only question is how the minority can come to terms with living in a country where their ideals are not valued and they aren't entitled to effect any changes at all.

Report
ImNotGreta · 24/09/2022 13:39

CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:28

I said civilised society. Keeping the peace is a responsibility that comes with power.

Truss is being irresponsible.

Understanding how people work is not ‘lefty’ or ‘righty’. It’s a basic understanding of how humans work… having an emotional and psychological understanding of the human race is useful to all sides.

Being irresponsible? Grow up. She’s left higher earners still paying more tax than they did under Labour.

What you mean here is just that you don’t like the policies. That’s fine, but moaning on about it or even having a protest march won’t change them, and you are deluding yourself if you think that it will.

If you want change the best way to get it is to convince enough voters to return a government with different policies.

Fortunately the left in the UK care more about in-fighting than they do about persuading people to vote for them which is why we simply don’t return socialist governments any more.

Report
Shade17 · 24/09/2022 13:42

If there is another general election, the Tories will win again.

Thank fuck!

Report
x2boys · 24/09/2022 13:43

DuckBilledFattypus · 24/09/2022 13:25

A few of the normal suspects banging on about how unfair it is is neither here nor there, and the normal lefty threat about how if they don’t get their way there’ll be riots is just pathetic.

The lefty believe in democracy, until it doesn't go their way. Then they will wage war, until their version of 'democracy' that should suit them, and not people that don't agree with them. Firm but fair it is not. Not that it matters, as labour are rarely in power, and they're so far down the rabbit hole that they're unelectable. And the reduction of taxes, NI, new grammar schools etc will likely be a Tory vote winner.

Quite and people that don't agree with they insult and believe they have been brainwashed, they cant accept people can have different political beliefs.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:52

ImNotGreta · 24/09/2022 13:39

Being irresponsible? Grow up. She’s left higher earners still paying more tax than they did under Labour.

What you mean here is just that you don’t like the policies. That’s fine, but moaning on about it or even having a protest march won’t change them, and you are deluding yourself if you think that it will.

If you want change the best way to get it is to convince enough voters to return a government with different policies.

Fortunately the left in the UK care more about in-fighting than they do about persuading people to vote for them which is why we simply don’t return socialist governments any more.

The UK’s closest ally, the US President has tweeted: “I am sick and tired of trickle-down economics. It has never worked. We're building an economy from the bottom up and middle out.”

Journalists picked up on how this was a sideways swipe at Truss (who announced her economic policy approaches in his country).

If her economic policy has never worked before (there are studies to support that it works in theory but not in practice) then she is being irresponsible and does not deserve the power she seems to wield.

On the subject of irresponsibility. Did you know that Truss’ government has prevented the Office of Budget Responsibility’s report from being published?

Kwasi Kwarteng refuses to let OBR release forecasts with mini-budget: Tory chair of Treasury committee says assessments on economic impact of planned tax cuts vital to provide reassurance to markets.

As such… Pound sinks as investors question huge tax cuts

Are you satisfied that Truss is being irresponsible with the economy now?

With power comes responsibility. And Truss’ government won’t publish the Office of Budget Responsibility report… lacking in transparency. How can you claim that’s not irresponsible? Clue is in what OBR stands for.

Report
ImNotGreta · 24/09/2022 13:56

Again, you clearly just don’t like this policy. Like many you seem to want others to pay for everything. That’s fine, but the way to achieve it is to get a Labour government.

Your claim that she doesn’t “deserve” to be in office is just childish. This isn’t the playground, we do not pick the prime minister based on what some malcontents feel is fair.

She is PM, she was appointed as such by the queen after being ejected as party leader. There is no “deserve” involved.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:58

I think they will win again, but will rightly lose their majority.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I just don’t want a corrupt government because that’s a threat to civilised society. Whether that’s leader from the Conservative, Labour, Lib Dems or whoever. They need accountability.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 13:59

Shade17 · 24/09/2022 13:42

If there is another general election, the Tories will win again.

Thank fuck!

I think they will win again, but will rightly lose their majority.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I just don’t want a corrupt government because that’s a threat to civilised society. Whether that’s leader from the Conservative, Labour, Lib Dems or whoever. They need accountability.

Report
DuckBilledFattypus · 24/09/2022 14:00

It's strange why people think Tory voters have been brainwashed. Even if people hate them, it's quite obvious why some people would vote Tory instead of labour. There's lots of lovely thoughtful old school labour people out there, but the party is tainted by the far left, middle class, commie type, aggressive, cancel culture chanters. For many of them it seems like a youth cult. A rite of passage for some. A permanent lifestyle for others. It's so sad what has happened to labour. It's no longer a party for the working class. It's been completely destroyed. It needs a change of leadership to someone credible, and the removal of most of the shadow cabinet. Only then do they ever stand a chance of being an opposition party. I'm not a labour voter but I do recognise that governments need strong political opposition. Otherwise they get complacent and lazy.

Report
Notlabeled · 24/09/2022 14:03

Bet everyone who wanted to oust Boris over a slice of cake are kicking themselves now.

This mini budget is winding up pretty much everyone that I despise. Pretty much has me c

Report
Notlabeled · 24/09/2022 14:04

Has me convinced it's the right call.

*Posted to soon

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 14:06

ImNotGreta · 24/09/2022 13:56

Again, you clearly just don’t like this policy. Like many you seem to want others to pay for everything. That’s fine, but the way to achieve it is to get a Labour government.

Your claim that she doesn’t “deserve” to be in office is just childish. This isn’t the playground, we do not pick the prime minister based on what some malcontents feel is fair.

She is PM, she was appointed as such by the queen after being ejected as party leader. There is no “deserve” involved.

You’ve gone off on a tangent.

We were discussing responsibility and power.

You’ve side stepped how the Office of Budget Responsibility’s report was not published. This is irresponsible almost by definition.

Not publishing the OBR report has impacted the a loss of confidence in the markets and UK economy.

Why should Truss’ irresponsibility not be called into question?

I don’t recall any other leader (who tend to be conservative as you say) refusing to publish OBR reports. What are Truss’ grounds for refusing to publish the OBR report?

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

DuckBilledFattypus · 24/09/2022 14:07

If her economic policy has never worked before (there are studies to support that it works in theory but not in practice) then she is being irresponsible and does not deserve the power she seems to wield.

Whether she deserves it or not is just an opinion. She was backed by the tory MPs and finally the Tory members, who decided that out of the final candidates available, she would be the one to win. So clearly, by the people who voted her in, she does deserve to win. Whether she does a good job or not, just like any other prime minister, remains to be seen. One thing is true though, she is (these days) a proper true blue Tory. Unlike the recent Tory prime minister's. So there will be a huge amount of change to move the party back to actual Tory values.

Report
mewkins · 24/09/2022 14:07

Truss will never call a GE. She knows she wouldn't win (I mean even with the patriotism of the last few weeks and the upswing in optimism that usually follows a new leader I doubt she could still muster much support which says a lot). So we will be stuck with her policies for two years while the country falls apart.

While a protest calling for a GE won't work, protests and mass action may be called for to voice the growing resentment. I disagree with the cynics who say that they never work - I think they do unnerve MPs (who to be fair didn't want Truss anyway). There may indeed be a vote of no confidence in her (some media reckon goodwill towards her will run out by christmas) which will mean, again, no GE but perhaps a new leader. The country doesn't need more instability sure but it really doesn't need Truss and her ridiculous and damaging policies either. What's worrying is that she seems to listen to no one. What's also worrying is the current trend in Europe for far- right politics. I think more triggers need to be introduced where a GE can be called. Otherwise we may find ourselves sleepwalking into something rather more sinister than loopy liz.

Report
CurseOfBigness · 24/09/2022 14:13

@ImNotGretaShe is PM, she was appointed as such by the queen.

The Queen who has since sadly died (like a day or two after appointing Truss).

We have a King now. She wasn’t appointed by the King. Or was she?

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.