To think most Brexiteers must now regret their vote?

[hoovermanouvre]

If you voted Brexit, do you feel like you have been able to "Take Back Control?" If so, where? Can anyone state one positive change since Brexit - I would genuinely like to hear at least something. Anything?

YANBU - I voted Brexit but now regret it
YABU - I voted Brexit and can see a benefit

You are completely wrong in how our parliamentary democracy works. MPs voted for Sunak by 137-113 which is hardly a ‘vast majority’. However the majority of the members voted for Truss. This is the way the system worked. In Britain the party with the majority of MPs from the government and the leader becomes prime minister. That is how the British system works.

The house of lords is not a policy-making chamber but what if he is to check that the laws are made are good laws and workable laws. I think what you suggest would make it a political chamber rather than what it is supposed to be a chamber for checking that the laws are good and workable

True, but then the referendum also showed that only 36% of the electorate wanted to remain in the EU. That means 64% either wanted to leave or were indifferent to the point they couldn't be arsed to vote.

Maybe if Remainers had engaged a few of the "can't be arsed" brigade, they'd have got the result they wanted.

I voted Leave, not through any certainty that things would be better - I expected them to be worse - but because remaining in the EU would also have led to us being in a worse position than we were in 2016. I was about 52% sure that leave was right, and 48% convinced we should remain. Remainers could have persuaded me but chose to call me a racist idiot for considering to vote Leave.

If David Cameron had said in advance that he would quit it the result was Leave, I'd have voted remain. It was clear at the time he was the best PM we'd had during my lifetime (admittedly a shit selection, the second best at that point was probably Thatcher, and the third best fucking Blair).

I any case I don't particularly regret it. I always felt it would take at least a decade for us to see any real benefit of Brexit, that of course was not factoring in them taking so long to actually arrange it and then being thrown into the midst of a once in a century pandemic.

The choice wasn't remain in the 2016 situation or leave - it was ever-closer integration and continual erosion of our rights or leave.

@DdraigGoch
Are you willing to concede that voters in Europe do have an influence on the make up of the EU commission? As a voter in the UK I have NEVER "won" . I'm in my 50s, vote in every election, never has what I voted for won. Ironically with the exception of the EU parliament because they didn't have a winner-take-all system so at least my view had some voice there.

Whether people think that there's benefit or not to Brexit and as I said earlier I don't think Brexit had to be a negative for Britain (but it was always going to be with such a chaotic, haphazard delivery) I don't think they will outstrip the negatives of the societal level division that a basically 50:50 result has so clearly shown.

Deciding an issue like this, in this way, is also pretty contrary to the style of democracy we have in this country. We elect people to make complex decisions in our favour. If Britain wanted out they needed to vote in a party with a plan and a promise to withdraw. What we got was the decision put back on us and then the results of that decision was put back to a government woefully under prepared to enact it.

If the normal process had been followed, and a popular government had been voted in, who had campaigned on these issues, with some kind of specific plan for what it might look like, then yeah it would have taken longer (if it ever proved a popular enough movement to get that far) but the result would have been more legitimate and the withdrawal could have proceeded to a plan, rather than happen simply through necessity

Remainers could have persuaded me but chose to call me a racist idiot for considering to vote Leave.

Most people I know personally who voted Leave are racist. Proper 'they should all fuck off home' racist. Look at the people and groups who supported Leave, EDL, Britain First etc, every racist group in the UK supported Leave, no exceptions. The racism attached to the leave voter didn't come from nowhere, it wasn't just made up. Now I know that not every Leave voter was motivated by racism, but I lot were.

The other point I don't really understand is why name calling might influence you on such an important issue. I've heard this argument a lot. Basically 'people called me stupid so I'll vote just to spite them' that seems the very definition of stupid in my book thereby proving the name callers right.

Were we ever asked if we wanted to join the EU? I don’t think we were.

No, likewise other international organisations. We voted for people/parties with manifestos to take expert advice and make those decisions for us. Personally, this was how I approached the EU referendum. The vast majority of experts, on every aspect, supported remain. That and the impact Brexit would have on the peace in NI made my decision for me.

It didn't, and my vote doesn't influence who is our Head of State or Head of Government either.

I believe we joined the European Community (EC / Common Market) in January 1973 without a public referendum with Edward Heath (Con) as Prime Minister.

In 1975 Harold Wilson (Lab.) had a referendum on whether we should stay in the EC. France said if we left we couldn't have our money back, prior to this President de Gaulle had twice vetoed UK's admission to the EC.(Even though we hosted him in London for 4 years during WW2 - the ungrateful git.)

The EC somehow morphed into the European Economic Community (EEC) and now it's the European Union (EU) - but I might be wrong about this.

You’re being unreasonable expecting them to admit it 😁

WonkasBooboofixer · 24/09/2022 10:56
Brexit positive - Construction workers now being better paid and having more employment opportunities now the Labour Market isn't flooded with cheap labour from Eastern Europe“

two Persimmon sites in our area have had to stop because of the lack of qualified construction workers. People are in limbo, with their houses 6 months behind schedule.
how the hell is that a plus?

The other thing that influenced my Remain vote was just the fact that I like super national organisations. I think they help prevent a race to the bottom and wars.

The other thing that influenced my Remain vote was just the fact that I like super national organisations. I think they help prevent a race to the bottom and wars.

And I'm pretty undecided on them

Yeah I’m totally the opposite and resist supranational organisations. So I guess we could never see eye to eye.

That said, Brexit was probably not necessary as long as UK could stay on periphery and just enjoy trade access BUT successive governments did what they wanted regardless of what their voters wanted and then said their hands were tied because of the EU.

Tories would have been voted in to reduce immigration for one but that never happened and it actually accelerated 🤷‍♀️

Which was my biggest reason to vote leave, not that I did vote leave btw.

But yeah I think super national organisations can go one of two ways, federations of states have a pretty checkered human history no?

What did Rees-Mogg come up with when he was laughably given the job of Minister for Brexit Opportunities? Nothing. And now we see Truss and her Krazy wrecking the Pound. God help us all.

It would appear to me that god is not helping us.

The problem with huge organisations is there’s an awful lot of people getting paid.

So the Commissioners (who are appointed by each nation's leader) are one more step removed from the electorate than the UK Prime Minister that you're complaining about being undemocratically appointed?

Are you willing to concede that the European Commission has just been a dumping ground for the continent's has-beens, a variety of failed politicians whose own countries had got fed up with them and decided to shunt them off to Brussels?

I voted remain. I have noticed that leave voters have now changed their position to ‘oh, well the Illuminati controls everything, so my vote didn’t even count’ 🙄

Your vote does influence the choice of head of government, provided that enough people vote the same way as you to cause a swing in the next election.

If you wanted to change the head of state, there's nothing stopping you from standing for election on that basis and if there's enough public support we could become a republic. Obviously if it turns out that your views are not shared by the majority of the population then things won't change, but that's how democracy works.

That went well...

My son voted for it and deeply regrets it.

I must have missed the election where Liz Truss ran as Tory leader that I was able to vote in.