For wanting to do a Ouija board for a laugh?

[EbbyEbs]

Next year DH and I are staying in a castle thought to be the most haunted in Britain. DH says he doesn’t believe in stuff like that, I’m on the fence really but more towards not believing. I think the most likely scenario if ghosts ARE real is that they’re historical residue and not intelligent entities. But even that is a stretch.

So, I’d like to do a ouija board when we’re there for a laugh. The castle is in the middle of nowhere so there isn’t much else to do on an evening other than drink (which I don’t do) and watch Netflix!

DH is point blank refusing saying he isn’t messing about with stuff like that. But he’s a non believer??! So what’s the harm?

If he doesn’t believe in it, am I being unreasonable to ask him to do it?

Hence why they call it a game. Surely you're being obtuse? Most forms of entertainmenyt based on fantasy say similar.

In DUNE you will become the leader of one of six great factions. Each wishes to control the most valuable resource in the universe - melange, the mysterious spice only found at great cost on the planet DUNE. As Duke Leto Atreides says “All fades before melange. A handful of spice will buy a home on Tupile. It cannot be manufactured, it must be mined on Arrakis. It is unique and it has true geriatric properties.” And without melange space travel would be impossible. Only by ingesting the addictive drug can the Guild Steersman continue to experience visions of the future, enabling them to plot a safe path through hyperspace

That's the blurb for the Dune board game. Are you suggesting that people actually ingest drugs and take over a planet when they play?

Also your description is from the US. Just looked at a couple of UK ones and they are hilariously ambivalent.

I have already addressed this. It is patently untrue. It depends, entirely, on the perceived harm of the beliefs.

Generally speaking you have just as much right to say something is bollocks as the person speaking the bollocks has to assert it.

@Miffee It depends, entirely, on the perceived harm of the beliefs.

So, if some people think using a ouija board can be dangerous, and choose not to use one, how is that harmful?

It perpetuates the harm. Apparently they can be frightening to the point of people requiring counselling. Perpetrating the myth that they can cause harm via the spirit world reinforces this.

Also as I said earlier people have as much right to call bullshit as bullshitters do when they are spouting it.

You know what... I wouldn't play with one. I don't believe as such, but I can't prove otherwise. I have had scratches and broken objects that happened without any outside influence. I have watched stuff move on its own. I live in a house that had to be blessed. On the other hand, I have never seen a ghost, or seen any scientific conclusions or examinations that make me believe, rationally, that they are real. Ideomotor control is fascinating and is probably what causes the planchard to move. So... On balance I would leave it at "there are lots of things I don't understand" and not play with one.

@Miffee It perpetuates the harm. Apparently they can be frightening to the point of people requiring counselling. Perpetrating the myth that they can cause harm via the spirit world reinforces this

I don't get that argument.

If people choose to avoid them, as I said, then how is that harmful?

I can't see the point of them, and neither can anyone I know, and we all choose to leave them alone, for that reason and also just in case there is something dodgy about them.

That's common sense to me.

The spirits can move objects on their own but can't move the Ouija planchette unless your hand is on it.

You don't think any opinions should be questioned, nor anybody ever persuaded otherwise about something? What about *racists, anti-Semites and other such hatefuls? You don't think they should be called out?

Reasoning and persuading are normal parts of human communication; be it between individuals, groups, companies, cultures, whatever. It makes up half of the threads in MN, including this one.
I have adverts on my telly trying to convince me of things. I've had Jehovah's Witnesses at my door trying to change my mind on things. None of this is violating, though it can be annoying.

Where someones belief in bollocks may be harmful to themselves or others, then really, it's worth at least mentioning.

*I know that racists are not on the same page or even in the same library as Ouija believers, but the principle of calling out bollocks remains the same.

If people choose to avoid them, as I said, then how is that harmful?

If they're avoiding them because they believe it's a dangerous portal to a spirit world, then yes the harm is still potentially there. As long as this idea is perpetuated, then harm is possible.

Credulous teenagers will egg each other on, drink emboldened young people will do it for fun. Hurt will happen.

If they avoided it because it has all the power of the piece of wood pulp that it is, then there's no risk whatsoever.

The harm comes in perpetuating the idea that the boards could unleash evil spirits upon you. "Don't do the Ouija because you'll contact demons who can crack your mirror and crash your car although they can't move the planchette without your help" encourages the fear and belief that are the cause of anything bad that results. "Don't bother with Ouija because it's a demonstrable crock of shite that's been proven to work by ideomotor movement" is rather different.

The danger is in the belief. Anything that encourages the belief is part of that.

Remember when Derren Brown got a load of students to use the board to spell out messages from a young woman who had taken her own life and whose photo was next to them to help channel her spirit?

If you didn't see it, guess who was sitting alive and well a short distance away, waiting to be introduced?

To add, most people who play Ouija do it precisely because they do think it'll contact spirits. As a PP said, people want to believe this nonsense. Spreading the idea that it's dangerous will put some people off but it'll encourage many others. Especially when, as several PPs have done, you frame it as people not being able to handle the power they're unleashing. For a lot of woo people, that amounts to "challenge accepted".

Whereas the more people understand that it's easily explained and not real and as occult as Monopoly, the less we'll have the fear and belief that are the only dangerous things about it.

That's what I've always wondered about as well, doesn't make sense

Ghost story bollocks never does. The complete lack of internal logic does not dissuade its proponents though.

@IAcceptCookies
Where someones belief in bollocks may be harmful to themselves or others, then really, it's worth at least mentioning.

And who is to be the judge of what's "harmful" to others?

I think this thread has gone a bit past "mentioning" anything. Those that don't subscribe to the "it's bollocks" theory have been insulted and personally attacked.
So much so that the mods have had to intervene.

Some people here just don't know what civil debate is.🙄It's like the mantra of Socialists - we know what's best for you whether you like it or not !

It's not common sense to avoid them in case they are "dodgy', it's the complete opposite. It defies all sense.

The action of avoiding then because one believes (against all reason) that they can summon evil is fine. No harm. The harm comes from saying they are dangerous or dodgy. It's not on the level of the harm from saying vaccines have microchips but it still bears challenging.

Every time this debate comes up believers try and claim some sort of victimisation. I think it's in poor taste but it's always the last (indeed only) resort.

And who is to be the judge of what's "harmful" to others?

We've had stories here about kids who got so distressed they needed professional help afterwards. That's clearly harm.

@Miffee
Every time this debate comes up believers try and claim some sort of victimisation.

It's not a "claim" as posts have been deleted and the posters warned of sanctions. So are you saying the Mumsnet mods are biased?

I think it's in poor taste but it's always the last (indeed only) resort.

That's your opinion, which IMO is bollocks. However, you are allowed to express it however stupid it makes you look !

Don't be daft. It makes perfect sense.

Not all spirits are poltergeists, you know. They can't all knock books off the shelf, hide your keys or throw your drying rack around.

Those more wispy, ectoplasmic entities and orbs are given a "voice" by Ouija; along with the groaners and the plumbing rattlers, whose ability to move things is restricted to banging pipes.

Not forgetting those many grey ladies in historic dress, trapped in castles and manor houses who can move, yes, but don't have the power to affect other things or otherwise communicate.

They all deserve to have their say.

@ReneBumsWombats We've had stories here about kids who got so distressed they needed professional help afterwards.

Yup stories. And the evidence as to what caused this is ....???

That's clearly harm.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but has causality been proved? - I think not.

Oh, please let this thread die.. no pun intended.. some people believe, some don't, & never the twain shall meet..

I know at least one deleted post was a believer.

You are the one saying I look stupid, yet you are saying you are being called names.

I am not offended as I think it's incredibly obvious that the person saying "a bit of wood can't summon evil" is not the stupid one in the debate.

Yup stories. And the evidence as to what caused this is ....???
😁

This is your weakest attempt yet. I'm embarrassed for you.

@mamabear715 some people believe, some don't, & never the twain shall meet..

I agree totally.

But for some reason known only to themselves the non-believers want to push their point of view rather aggressively.

I'm not sure who they want to convince, themselves or others ? 🙂