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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That this looks like a stunt to undermine trans issues

369 replies

TempName01 · 21/09/2022 18:03

Article in the Daily Mail, not sure if I should link to it…

A Canadian teacher in transition to female is pictured with enormous prosthetic breasts which they wear as part of their gender identity. When I saw the article I thought it must be a stunt against transgender people and trying to ridicule men transitioning to female. If they actually want to dress that way then to me, it looks like they are fetishising rather than genuinely transgender.

I am usually all for dressing how ever you want but it just looks so inappropriate, AIBU?

OP posts:
Honeylover333 · 07/10/2022 01:27

TheKeatingFive · 06/10/2022 23:19

The definition of a woman, according to the TRAs is anyone who identifies as one.

This guy fits the brief. According to the rules set out by the TRAs themselves, he is one. TWAW, no debate, etc.

His motives are not relevant. He says he is, therefore he is. This is what anyone who championed self ID / TWAW campaigned for. No use washing your hands of him now. You were warned.

This can’t be repeated often enough. What you see there is absolutely legitimately self-ID. It is what trans supporters campaign for.

They have achieved it in Canada. We’re at great risk of it here. Not just the stupid comedy breasts, but any other fetish behaviour they want to display to children.

Shamedandconfused · 07/10/2022 02:03

its so sad that the feelings of some pervert exhibitionist are more important than safeguarding children and women.

stillvicarinatutu · 07/10/2022 02:12

So basically anyone who wears a wig and comedy breasts can Id as a woman and expect to be treated as one?

Wowsers. If I happened upon "her" in a ladies change room id ensure I had a pin on me ....those busoms need taking down a cup or 2 .

This is surely a joke?

stillvicarinatutu · 07/10/2022 02:12

Shamedandconfused · 07/10/2022 02:03

its so sad that the feelings of some pervert exhibitionist are more important than safeguarding children and women.

Yep . On a
More serious note . This.

Hearthnhome · 07/10/2022 05:42

stillvicarinatutu · 07/10/2022 02:12

So basically anyone who wears a wig and comedy breasts can Id as a woman and expect to be treated as one?

Wowsers. If I happened upon "her" in a ladies change room id ensure I had a pin on me ....those busoms need taking down a cup or 2 .

This is surely a joke?

You don’t need the wig OR breasts of any kind.

This is the result of TRAs own ideology. If you say you are a woman, you are. That’s it. Nothing else comes into it. You say it and it means you are. And if anyone who says they are a woman and becomes one, then women lose their sex based rights because women, as a sex classification, doesn’t exist.

It’s also really interesting that trans people, who don’t agree with this ideology and don’t agree with children medically transitioning are absolutely slaughtered on Social Media. Although it’s usually trans men that get attacked. Transwomen are treated far more gently, if they take this stance. Probably because of their sex.

DdraigGoch · 07/10/2022 06:33

robin5810 · 06/10/2022 20:06

Trans women are women, but he is not a trans woman. He is very clearly mocking trans women, and using Canadian law to be an idiot.

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But we must have acceptance without exception, anyone who says that they are trans is trans, according to Stonewall. Why are you gatekeeping? Who gives you the right to deny her lady feels?

Hearthnhome · 07/10/2022 07:04

DdraigGoch · 07/10/2022 06:33

But we must have acceptance without exception, anyone who says that they are trans is trans, according to Stonewall. Why are you gatekeeping? Who gives you the right to deny her lady feels?

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I wonder if that’s why op disappeared. Or name changed because they realised it’s impossible for this to be a stunt. And it’s not undermining anything, even if it was a stunt.

It can’t be a stunt if you don’t have to do anything other than declare you are woman, to be a woman. He is a woman because he says he is. There’s to be no questioning. Which means it’s not undermining trans issues.

Maybe op actually meant ‘This Trans woman shows the huge problems with the Trans rhetoric of You are a woman just because you say you are’

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:20

RebeccaCloud9 · 06/10/2022 16:39

Ah, I've just seen a TikTok about this which makes the most sense out of everything else I've seen. The post said that the teacher is in trouble with the school for refusing to accept ridiculous wokery but they can't sack him so he's gone all out to show how ridiculous it all is. Speculation is that he wants to get sacked then sue for discrimination. Don't know how true it is, but it would make more sense than actually believing he is genuine.

@RebeccaCloud9 That conspiracy theory that it's a stunt first appeared on a QANON site, so I don't give it any credence. There is no evidence at all that he was ever in trouble previously for GC beliefs, and no evidence it's a stunt.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:23

amoobaa · 06/10/2022 17:04

Yes, the erosion of women isn’t ok.

But I stand by my point that there is a lot of hate for transwomen on mumsnet. Surely you see that?

just because I think transwomen are generally being discriminated against, doesn’t mean I don’t understand the other issues going on nor does it mean I think they are less important.

Your black and white thinking isn’t going to help. I know it’s hard to hold multiple complex perspectives in mind but if we want to make progress, surely it’s worth the effort and time?

I’m painfully aware of the patriarchy and the many threats to women’s lives. What on earth makes you think I’m not concerned about that?

I’m simply saying that the way these posts tend to go, is a lot of hate is expressed towards all transwomen.

Also, if you care so much then share your views. I’m here to learn. There’s no need to accuse me of shutting down a conversation.

I’m trying to make it more intelligent, not shut it down.

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I have seen absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, of hate of transpeople on Mumsnet. None whatsoever. Being upset at them giving women rape threats and death threats, and flaunting being in womens spaces isn't 'hate'.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@Noteverybodylives It is only 'known' for 'being offensive' to trans people by gender ideologists who think vulnerable women defending their basic civil human rights is 'offensive'. Anything that challenges misogyny is considered 'offensive'.

Consider the source. It's only misogynists who think Mumsnet is offensive to trans people.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@Startagain51 It's interesting that you create a false narrative in order to gaslight women. We DO care about starving, neglected, cold, badly educated etc children. In deed and in fact, GC women are the ones who are most upfront about raising money for charity. Including for women and children in Iran, Ukraine and Afghanistan. Your post is nothing but lies, as is the assertion that Mumsnet is even remotely hateful of transpeople. The shame is yours.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:35

robin5810 · 06/10/2022 19:00

the transphobia on this thread is appalling. obviously that man is being a total idiot, he’s ridiculing women, both trans and cis, and that’s absolutely wrong. but on a seperate note, trans people are real and valid, as are nonbinary people and gay people and it’s blatantly ignorant to not acknowledge that.

@robin5810 Please don't lie and gaslight. There is no 'transphobia' on this thread. Unless you consider women fighting for our basic human rights as 'transphobic'. In that case, that says a lot that you think womens basic human rights are 'transphobic'.

Also, you misgendered the person this topic is about. They claim they are a woman. So you are the transphobic one for calling them 'he'.

Hoisted by your own deceitful and gaslighting and self-righteous petard.

Hugocat1 · 07/10/2022 08:40

Not sure if anyone has posted this but this story has been on Twitter for a while.

Some people are saying that this guy actually got reprimanded for toxic masculinity last year after rebutting TRA ideology and this is him wanting to get sacked so he can sue the shit out of the school. Apparently the staff hate him

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:40

amoobaa · 06/10/2022 19:38

See this is my point entirely.

I’m not defending the erosion of women or women’s rights. That would make me a piece of shit. I’m not agreeing with men invading women’s spaces, again that would be really shitty. And I’m certainly not condoning the prosthetics breasts this person is wearing. I personally find it offensive.

I’m in agreement with points made about specific incidents or people who are contributing to the above.

What I find completely unacceptable is lumping all transwomen in the same box.

Transwomen who deserve respect and dignity do exist. Why is that idea so outrageous?

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@amoobaa Transwomen who deserve respect and dignity do exist. Why is that idea so outrageous?

No one has ever said they don't. Not even on Mumsnet. You are arguing a false narrative that doesn't exist.

Hugocat1 · 07/10/2022 08:42

robin5810 Hang on, please don’t lump gay people in with non binary and trans what ever. It’s not the same and I find it really offensive

If you don’t know the difference between homosexuality and identity please go and educate yourself

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:44

robin5810 · 06/10/2022 20:06

Trans women are women, but he is not a trans woman. He is very clearly mocking trans women, and using Canadian law to be an idiot.

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@robin5810 Trans women are men they are not woman. Not anatomically, DNA-wise, or chromosome wise. A man cannot transmogrify into a woman. And yes, you are transphobic. That person says they are a trans woman. Who are you to be so bigoted as to say they are lying? You're a hypocrite.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:49

robin5810 · 06/10/2022 20:20

Because trans women will do their best to successfully pass as cis women

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@robin5810 Firstly 'cis' is a slur, and not acceptable on this site. It's just trans women, and women. Or trans men, and men.

Secondly, almost NO trans women 'pass'. Their gait, their voice, their jaw, the size of their hands, their bone structure - they almost never 'pass'. Many trans women I've seen go overboard with the make up and look like a caricature or a drag queen, but they basically never 'pass'.

FaazoHuyzeoSix · 07/10/2022 08:51

@amoobaa But I stand by my point that there is a lot of hate for transwomen on mumsnet. Surely you see that?

Any hate speech posted is deleted as soon as it is reported, and offenders are banned.

Failiing to agree with another person's deeply held belief is not hatred. Asserting provable facts is not hatred. Speaking about one's own lived experience is not hatred.

It seems to me that you've made a nasty accusation against the mumsnet community here. But if you can come back and quote the thread and timestamp of an actual example of anti trans hatred that hasn't been swiftly deleted and got the poster in trouble I will take that back and apologise to you. I originally wrote this paragraph aaking you to quote 3 such examples but tbh that's a ridiculously high barrier, I can't believe you'll find one.

Of course transphobes exist. And from time to time one comes on to mumsnet and posts something hateful (which is then deleted). But I would suggest that a huge contributor to why that happens is because of the toxic narrative throughout other social media platforms that regularly states (wrongly) that mumsnet is a place where transphobic is tolerated. It is not.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:52

robin5810 · 06/10/2022 20:24

It’s because that person is NOT trans. Trans women do their best to pass as cis women.

Being transgender is not a personality trait, and for the record- assuming you’re in a relationship or have children, then your love for them is also a feeling in your head and in the grand scheme of things, means nothing.

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@robin5810 And the person involved IS doing their best to 'pass', but it's basically impossible for any trans woman to pass. And please stop using the term 'cis', it's deeply offensive to women. We are not a subset of our own sex.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:53

robin5810 · 06/10/2022 20:26

Trans women are women regardless of medical or social transition but due to social and gender dysphoria, if it’s safe to do so then they’ll often try to express who they are with what they look like.

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@robin5810 You are delusional if you believe that. Trans women are NOT women. They are men. And always will be.

Brefugee · 07/10/2022 08:53

So here's a great idea, let's get rid of the bullshit, sexist, sex role stereotypes and expectations and stop pretending that appearance or dress sense makes the slightest bit of difference to, or alters, a person's sex.

sounds a lot like 2nd wave feminism to me. It is how i have always lived my life: not constrained by the social construct of Gender to do the things that i want to do and am good at. I identify , however, as a woman because that is my sex. I have no idea what makes me a woman outside of biology. It isn't a feeling it is a being.

Women are women. Transwomen are transwomen.

As for transwomen always trying to pass as "cis" women? ODFOD. We have ALL seen women with dicks, women with beards, etc - insisting they are women. No "cis" woman does that. Nice try though.

And again: those who accuse MN of hate of tw. Where are the receipts? you don't have any. Because it is a lie.

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:54

robin5810 · 06/10/2022 20:28

Yes, well done. Sex is biological and can’t be changed. What this whole thing is about is gender, a societal construct.

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@robin5810 A woman is an adult human female. It is a SEX classification. Not a gender classification. Therefore, a trans woman cannot be a woman. A woman is only based on SEX. Nothing else.

IncompleteSenten · 07/10/2022 08:57

Undermine - no.

Highlight the absurdity of se

CatsandFish · 07/10/2022 08:59

Sunnyqueen · 06/10/2022 21:07

Yes it is a deliberate stunt, he is seeing how far he can push them before they dismiss him so he can then sue. The guys spoken out about anti trans before he started this.

@Sunnyqueen There is absolutely no evidence he ever spoke out about anti-trans before this. That lie came from a QANON site, so, consider the source.

IncompleteSenten · 07/10/2022 09:00

Oh FFS
Highlight the absurdity of self I'd no questions asked and the potential for abuse by individuals who do not actually believe they are of the opposite sex to that indicated by their genitals and chromosomes but want to use that open and unquestionable platform for other reasons (normally sexual) - yes