Working mothers can't have it all?

[Unicornhat]

I've never been ruthlessly ambitious but have always worked hard and been in pretty senior roles since my mid 20s. I'm currently in a snr manager role in a large company and earn a really good salary with perks etc. I feel like I kind of fell into this role - I've never consciously decided this is where I've wanted my career to be, I was approached about the job and here we are.
I now have an almost 2 year old and I hope to have another.
I'm finding the balance really difficult. I have so much less interest in my job and I'm fed up of it taking up so much headspace outside of the office, and I'm fed up of being the manager. It's a role where you're creative and always coming up with more and more new ideas. The workload is intense I always feel I'm letting someone down.
Realistically, for me to get a part time job, or even one that gives you an opportunity for a proper lunch break and to leave on time, would mean a massive pay cut. Also, if I step back for a while I'm concerned I wouldn't get back into a senior role and salary for a v long time.
Am I just crap at managing things, or is it possible to hold down a good career and have young children? Has anyone given up a job like this and then regretted it? Have you struggled financially?
My sister and in laws keep telling me to get an easier job but it's not that simple!

Maybe it's geographical and obviously we are all speaking from different perspectives, but I have loads of friends who have had to get their babies out of the house day after day at 7.30 or earlier, even when they have colds or some such. Then it's fighting in traffic to get them to the nursery. Then on to work through traffic. Fight through more traffic to get there on time to collect them at 6pm. Get home in rush hour only to put them to bed. And then they get sleep issues such as the child is co-sleeping with them because it's the only time they have proximity. This kind of life is very common.

Yes the DHs may be doing some if the nursery pick ups and drop offs as well, but to the child, it's the same reality. And the mum still feels the guilt more.

I have a friend who, when her child was 5, realised that she had never cut her child's toenails. Bizarre thing to realise, but it just hit her over lunch like a tonne of bricks. Loads of things like this. I know a family where the children ended up moving into the nanny flat as the parents were never there. In fact, I thought the nanny was the mum for about a year. I know quite a few women who have done all this with maybe the first and / or second child and then there is something else that is just the last straw - might be s third child; or an illness; or one child having difficulties - and that's it, They are close to a breakdown snd give it all up. One if my oldest friends did indeed have a breakdown after her third child. I have seen women destroyed by trying to "have it all". That's not to say others don't make it work. I'm just saying some women get to s point of f* it - I don't need to "have it all".

Can we never have these debates without ridiculous over exaggerations?

12 hours in childcare a day
60+ hour working weeks
Hours and hours commuting every day
Only seeing your children for an hour a day

@subtitle

And where were the kids dads?

Right, well this is an extreme that I am not advocating. And nothing to do with the argument of whether doing both - in a sensible way - is possible.

And how is being with their dad the same for the child as being in nursery?

@subtitle

I really hope that you are not having these conversations in the real world as your narrative is so offensive to any Mother who works.

I’m interested to know what you would have done if your husband had wanted to cut down on his work or become a SAHD? Also, how you made sure your child’s Father would be financially sufficient to allow you to stay at home. Being a SAHP is such a privileged lifestyle, regardless of if it is the right lifestyle.

What do you mean where were the kids dads? At work, same as the mums. This is not an exaggeration. I'm in central London and long working hours and full time nannies / nurseries and only seeing your kids for an hour either end of their waking day is quite.common for families with young children. They don't even give the kids breakfast. They don't have time, that happens at nursery..There are people on this thread who only see their kids an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, even though they WFH. No idea where some people live or why they think this is an exaggeration. Some people at the schools mine are at never go to a parents evening or a sports day. Never. The nanny is paid to do that and feeds the salient info back ti the parents. With babies this is very common - the nanny gets them into a routine where they have a nap at 1pm, then the parents keep the child awake all day at weekends because they don't want them to sleep as it's the only time they see them. All this sort of thing. The parents don't know who the friends are who play in their homes. They meet them for the first time at their child's birthday party and say, isn't it lovely to put a face to the name. Often, say you have a Polish nanny, the babies or toddlers playing in your house are the charges of other Polish nannies (friends of your nanny basically) and the kids are different ages (not the ones your toddler would choose necessarily). You see them everywhere round here, The nannies get together in the coffee shops and it's pram jam (can't blame them for that). But then they just talk in a Polish over the kids heads. Some families push through with all this, some don't.

@subtitle You are still talking about a situation that isn't the case for anyone saying that they have made it work. And that noone is advocating.

I'm not saying any of this is remotely the case for posters on here, by the way. I know the average working family is not like this. But some are and I've seen this all about me for many years and those types of all or nothing jobs are not for everyone.

@subtitle

Your post was full of judgement for the mothers.

None for the dads who are doing the very same thing.

No one as advocated working every hour and never seeing your kids.

If that's what people choose though, if that's what works for their family, thats up to them

Its not the norm by a long shot though

But it's just completely irrelevant for the debate on this thread. Except to put guilt onto women who want to work by insisting that always how it is to be a working mum.

You talk about not judging anyone, yet that's exactly what all your posts are doing.

Having Children shifts your perspective in to seeing what’s truly important in life. They are a blessing. Maybe your job is starting to take a back seat now!

@Themadcatparade do you think that someone who works or still cares about their job (or career) doesn't consider their children a blessing?

I'm talking about the mothers because they are my friends and the ones I have relationships with. I don't know their husbands in that sense. But it's obvious, that even in this type of lifestyle (if people say it's extreme, I'm sure you're right, but it's all around me nevertheless) my female friends are the ones feeling more guilt about the set up than their husbands. They talk about this all the time, but I bet their DHs don't, My friend had a total breakdown recently and it came out of nowhere. It was a massive shock. But I know of a few men who have had breakdowns or something resembling that too.

@subtitle

That's weird

A few threads ago all your friends were sahms

@Themadcatparade

Weirdly enough I cam view more than one thing as being important

It's possible to view your children and your job as important.

It's a complicated thing and I think comes down to personal choice- however there are plenty of women who don't actually have much choice. That £600 they gain in wages to family budget (after paying childcare with young children) is necessary to the family pot-particularly in areas with high housing costs. There are plenty of women with under 5s who would like to do maybe 15 hours a week but simply can't . It really isn't black and white. Many people have no family help at all and don't really have a choice. I must admit I'm baffled at those who have very very high earning partners who choose to work full time with very young children - but each to his own- I do think however most women would be wise to keep their foot in the door of work - even if they are not better off and it's 10 hours a week. Life can throw you curveballs and having a full CV can help mitigate it in many circumstances.

@Crikeyalmighty

"I must admit I'm baffled at those who have very very high earning partners who choose to work full time with very young children".... "I do think however most women would be wise to keep their foot in the door of work"

You literally answered your own question. Well, one of the possibe reasons. Of which there are many.

Do you wonder why men with high earning wives aren't SAHPs too? Or can you not even imagine that being the case?

@Unicornhat back to the OP!

Having it all means different things to different people but you certainly can have a successful career and be a good parent.

You sound like you don't like your job, maybe a change is an option? I had an interview this morning and one of my questions was about flexible working, that is a dealbreaker for me.

My whole point is that not all working mums are the same. Different types of career mean different lifestyles and different decisions. It's simply not possible in some careers to be talking about flexi hours and 37 hour weeks. It should be - yes absolutely, but it's not. Many people have the type of jobs where the culture is you either push it to the max or don't bother at all. Once you're on that track with a mortgage and a lifestyle to match, it can be hard to step off. I do think women in these type of jobs carry more stress than men because women tend to not switch off from the children in the way men 'compartmentalise.' So I think these type if organisations need to recognise that women are different and adapt accordingly, not just expect women to adapt themselves to the corporate structures set up by men for men over time. Ultimately, you don't get change if you pretend there is no difference between men and women. It's the same with the menopause - if you try to deny that is a reality for women, how will that bring about awareness or new policies in the workplace? You can bet if it were men who went through menopause there would be a set number of "menopause days" they could take in a year or something along those lines.

Anyway, got to go to work!!!

@Topgub

your post was full of judgement for the mothers

Yes, yes it was, absolutely. No problem for men to see their kids for less than 2 hours a day but - because of society/biology/history/other sexist bollocks - very much inadequate for any woman in this position.

I despair.

oh god @subtitle menopause as well? Please let us aspiring little career women at least pretend to be on a level footing with men in the workplace

I honestly don't understand why so many posters are treating their job like a little hobby that they do for fun, selfishly, to detriment of their children. And their salary like entirely optional extra, pocket money to spend on themselves?Children are expensive and I don't mean Nike trainers and newest gadgets. Living in poverty is clearly not good for children. Single mothers with children are more likely to be in poverty than any other type of household in the UK. Me earning money is for the benefit of my DC. And having a good career and more money gives them more security than trying to work a little part time unskilled and low paid job around school hours.

@Icanstillrecallourlastsummer Yep that's a point too - except in real life I've found very few high earning men who really really want to be around their children most of the time- whereas I know lots of women who if money wasn't an issue did. As I said it's a really individual thing. I think it benefits most women to work to some degree - that degree varies depending on finances, personal motivation and whether or not you like being around children a lot ! personally i wish I hadn't had to go back full time at 13 weeks! But those were the limitations way back when- far less part time professional jobs, no working from home and only 12 weeks minuscule allowance- even when working for a multi national .