To be on the deeds of the house

[Unicornetto]

We aren't married but should I have my name on the deeds of the house?

Me and my partner have been together for 15 years and bought our first house 5 years ago. The house is in my partners name as I had no income at the time as we had just had a baby. I have had various part time jobs to fit in around the children over the last few years and haven't contributed to the mortgage just the food shopping and clothes etc for kids.

He has just remortgaged and I've been asked to sign the 'declaration of no interest' (I did this before) but I'm wondering if I should be on the deeds as we're not married? Is this possible if I don't pay the mortgage and I'm not on the mortgage? He said he doesn't believe in marriage, even though I do and says he's happy as we are. I'm just worried that I have no financial stability, which is due to giving up my full time job to raise our family. I asked him if its possible for me to go on the deeds and he said no as I'm not on the mortgage and gets really annoyed with me for asking. Just wondering what other unmarried couples have done in this situation?

you can’t rely on someone else to just look after you

Well her 'partner' has relied on her to do all the home based work. As well as work 25 hours a week. But he doesn't want to reciprocate.

As the OP isn't married she certainly needs to do more to protect herself.

Surely the point of marriage - or in this case pseudo marriage - is a mutual commitment to look after each other?

Good luck with the talk op. As to I really would like to work full time but would struggle with finding childcare in the school holidays, how do people manage this?
well, for one we juggle it wiht our partners who are the child’s dad, so he takes a week of one term holiday off and we find holiday programs for the other, then I take a week of the next one… it’s tricky, no mistake, but it’s tricky and manageable with a contributing partner and just really really hard if you’re doing it on your own in the relationship.
i would want to be on the deeds and the mortgage. Not being on these would make me feel like my partner doesn’t value my contribution to our family, and all these years I’d felt like we were a team it was a lie.

@Blossomtoes yes, would certainly hope so.

Some of these men who limit and control their partners’ future security through dependence by shirking marriage never imagine they might become ill or that their partners might do!

When the partner becomes ill, they have to start doing everything that was once done by the ill spouse for themselves! And because they are a man, people tell them how very well they are doing.

These characters don’t make good carers.

What do you think they then do?

Funnily enough they then start treating those whom they were never that interested in pretty respectfully. All in an effort to recruit free help.

The cycle begins again, usually with a woman, a sister/daughter/ friend sacrificing her time, her career, her peace of mind to help them both.

Hi, OP -

I hope you are all right. Yesterday you had a lot to take in.

At the risk of adding to it, I am going to circle back to your idea - a very common one - that working full time might not make sense because you would then be paying so much for child care. Did you mean that you, personally would be paying? Sadly that is what women posting often do mean, even, or especially, when they are living with the fathers of their DC and have separate finances.

Your partner makes good money and should be using some of it to pay for child care now, so that you can also develop a career. That is, if you want one. I would not ordinarily give advice in this area but in your situation it does seem like a good idea. Take care.

I hope all went well with OP’s discussion too. I have been thinking of her.

Yes, it’s a heck of a lot for her to take in when already stressed

One thing I haven’t yet read being discussed is the psychology of the ‘marriage dilemma’, what which motivates dithering and delay.

It goes something like this,

“Now I am stuck in this and dependent, do I even want to marry someone who hasn’t cared enough to want to marry me all this time? Even if he now says to go ahead and book the Registry Office.”

”It won’t be a church/mosque/synagogue, that’s what I wanted”

“The romantic notion of marriage has been squeezed out of it - I am so unhappy, it will be a gloomy day”

And finally,

“If I marry him, then I will never marry a man who truly does love me, including wanting to instinctively include me in financial decisions and protect me in old age. Any potential husbands will be deterred by the ring already on my finger”

You see there are all manner of reasons and excuses, a person can use to comfort and confuse themselves over with this.

Procrastination overpowers the sheer pragmatism of just getting to a registry office and getting it done.

Thoughts?

There was a previous thread where a woman up shit creek had broached it and he’d said yes love just get it booked. And she was hesitant holding out for a romantic proposal/big wedding. Lots of posters screaming at her just get it booked you can have a party later.

I do wonder if all marriages having to be a register office would help - emphasis on marriage is a legal contract then have a ceremony, religious ceremony, party if you want. So everyone does the bit in an office just like signing a will etc. Think some European countries have this set up.

Set set clear fee on gov website like to stop the we can’t afford to arguments. It’s £175 at our local one all in I think some people don’t realise how little it costs.

Civil Partnership for opposite sex couples doesn’t seem to have caught on at all.

I agree with what pp are saying. In my community lots of Muslims born in U.K. are not registering the marriages as they want to go by ‘Islamic law’ (or sometimes the woman has no idea what she’s losing by doing it this way) islamic law doesn’t exist in this country so they aren’t going by any law and usually it’s the man’s idea as then he can pick and choose which part of ‘Islamic law’ he wants to practice and the woman can’t take him to court unless we count those kangaroo court sharia councils as courts. The woman still refers to him as her husband but legally they’re nothing more than boyfriend and girlfriend. They refer to themselves as married but they’re not and you can’t write that on forms. Although someone I know was asked at the birth registry if they were married and husband said yes she said no, not legally but the registrar said “if you consider yourselves to be married then I’ll put down that you’re married” I was like wtf when she told me. I’m sure if they were referred to as boyfriends the women would be more keen to realise what a shitty situation they’re in unless financially they’re better off and don’t reduce their salary to look after kids -which rarely happens in these set ups anyway! But yes the terminology needs changing.

This afternoon I had a telephone appointment with the mortgage company that my partner is remortgaging with (I told him that I would be phoning them this morning to see if I could be added on he said no point blah blah but I said I'mdoing it anyway). The lady I spoke to was the same lady I met 5 years ago when I couldn't go on the mortgage as I affected the affordability. Now I'm earning, I'm not a dependant and so she calculated that me going on the mortgage without taking my earnings into account (as he can afford it without me) makes no difference to the monthly payments of the mortgage offer. As the mortgage is at offer stage, she's going to speak to the lender to make sure I can be added on. If its too late he can do transfer of equity after its gone through for a small fee. My partner came home from work not long after the phone call and I excitedly told him, he seemed quite surprised but I think he's pleased for me. I think he genuinely thought my pay would have been taken into consideration. So fingers crossed it will be able to go through. We need a solicitor so will get our wills sorted at the same time. We both have life insurance, he has death in service grant in my name and I have my death grant from my frozen pension in his name.

This afternoon I had a telephone appointment with the mortgage company that my partner is remortgaging with (I told him that I would be phoning them this morning to see if I could be added on he said no point blah blah but I said I'mdoing it anyway). The lady I spoke to was the same lady I met 5 years ago when I couldn't go on the mortgage as I affected the affordability. Now I'm earning, I'm not a dependant and so she calculated that me going on the mortgage without taking my earnings into account (as he can afford it without me) makes no difference to the monthly payments of the mortgage offer. As the mortgage is at offer stage, she's going to speak to the lender to make sure I can be added on. If its too late he can do transfer of equity after its gone through for a small fee. My partner came home from work not long after the phone call and I excitedly told him, he seemed quite surprised but I think he's pleased for me. I think he genuinely thought my pay would have been taken into consideration. So fingers crossed it will be able to go through. We need a solicitor so will get our wills sorted at the same time. We both have life insurance, he has death in service grant in my name and I have my death grant from my frozen pension in his name.

That is shocking @magma32

I would have thought the registrar was on a sticky wicket with that one.
As I said up thread, the terminology does need to be changed but most of us don't like to do it on a mumsnet thread-very different from the official situation you describe.
Many times, I have wanted to point out that a boyfriend's mum is not her mother-in-law and his children to another woman are not her stepchildren.
It's this looseness about language that allows some people-mostly women-to think that they have something quasi legal when they don't.
I know it sounds inappropriate to refer to a man with whom you live and have children with as a boyfriend but unless you share some legal documentation, that is all he is.
I think it might give some people pause for thought before they give up their lives for a boyfriend.

Yes I do go round in circles with wanting to work full time vs part-time and building a career. We would both pay for childcare, but in the past I have thought of it as coming out of my pay. It would probably benefit me with feeling fulfilled bit it wouldn't benefit the kids and their happiness is my priority. In a few years when they are a bit older I will definitely get back to full time. Thank you for your support.

Don’t end up with a Joint Borrower Sole Proprietor mortgage. All of the financial responsibility, none of the legal ownership.

You need to be on the title deeds, as Joint Tenants.

“As the mortgage is at offer stage, she's going to speak to the lender to make sure I can be added on. If its too late he can do transfer of equity after its gone through for a small fee.”

Are you absolutely sure of that, for this lender?

If you do the transfer of equity after his mortgage completes, usually a transfer of equity trigger a whole new remortgage. Which if he’s just gone into a fix with a repayment charge will be an issue, or if the mortgage company wants to remortgage but actually is more interested in your actual earnings if you own part of the property.

Think about it this way: if you’re on the mortgage, but not on the deeds and he defaults - the lender can chase either or both of you for the money, or repossess from him. Nice and secure.

If he defaults and you’re not on the mortgage, but own half the property - they can only chase him for the money, and they’ve got a big issue on their hands because you own part of the house but owe them nothing. They can’t easily repossess.

It isn’t a mortgage broker who sorts out a TR1, but a solicitor. I’d be somewhat cynical at the idea that you can “simply” do a transfer of equity without being on the mortgage.

If you can’t be added to the mortgage now, stop the application. Reapply jointly, and manage the TR1 with a solicitor.

No a T of E does not effect the fixed rate. That's why it's called a t of e and not a remortgage.

Bloody well done for calling and having a voice in all this, Unicornetto !!!

This is the beginning of a shift in discovering for yourself what can be done to secure your financial future.

I would speak to a solicitor about this before doing committing to do anything else but please do so quickly.

If your partner is out a lot during the day, this is no problem.

Is that for me, @Hymnulop ?
You can’t just do a transfer of equity without the permission of the lender, because you’re reducing the security they have based your mortgage on, and added a complication of another owner.

The lender may well request a re-mortgage.
I didn’t say that would affect the fixed rate offered, I said that if they have a fixed rate with a repayment charge, the repayment charge could be an issue. That’s because if they re-mortgage, they may trigger the repayment charge. The fixed rate could go up to, just because at the moment rates are increasing and the one he is mid-application on may no longer be available.

I think OP needs to be very careful before relying on a mortgage broker who says a transfer of equity is simple.

Especially because it’s the same mortgage broker that gave her duff advice 5 years ago 🤷🏻‍♀️ I say duff advice… duff advice in terms of protecting herself. But that’s not what a mortgage broker is there to do. Which again is why I wouldn’t rely on a mortgage broker being an expert on a transfer of equity. Just like during my divorce, my solicitor didn’t try to give me advice on mortgage applications.

Just responding to your thought about whether to work full time or not. I would suggest it would be better to work full time. Every year you miss ft work, you're losing pension. I work ft and childcare bill just comes out of our joint account. It doesn't come just out of my wages. You need to take that approach.

@Theprimeofmissmulroney Yes, it’s outrageous for the higher earning parent to expect the significantly lower earning parent to pay for all the childcare.

Talk about ensnaring mothers.

I think some volunteer to accept this imbalance because they feel it gives them better legal rights over their children.

Reality is that so many mothers are already limited to badly paid, part time /zero hours jobs, as it is.

If OP gets some financial security there’s less onus on her to work FT. Enjoying your childrens childhood, in the way you most want to, is worthwhile too.

You need to get some good legal advice, now. You have no protection and you have no independent income. Don't sign the declaration of no interest. Why is he asking you to do this, unless he wants to be in a position to end the relationship and give you nothing?

Legally, he can do this. Your contributions - giving up your career, having children with him, bringing the children up and, I suspect, a lot of housekeeping and general support sadly count for close to nothing, legally.

To he honest, I wouldn't want to stay with a man who acted like this, but that is your decision. What is important is that you get some legal rights over property that you have a strong moral right to. Good luck.

I don’t know - but have experienced brokers sayings there’s “no point” adding someone without an income to the mortgage. I suspect they don’t understand the implications of that and are just looking at the mortgage application in isolation.

OP’s OH might have followed their advice and not realised the implications for OP.

Do you trust him to do the transfer of equity after, and what percentage of equity? Watch it’s not a Joint Borrower Sole Proprietor Mortgage which essentially means there are two borrowers but only one owner.

@Unicornetto well done I’ll keep my fingers crossed the mortgage offer can be changed. At least you took the fist step and as for all those who blamed your dp for doing this deliberately shame on them

It would probably benefit me with feeling fulfilled bit it wouldn't benefit the kids and their happiness is my priority

why wouldn’t it benefit the kids? Good childcare can be very beneficial to kids, from learning independence to socialisation on.

but I’m very surprised the mortgage advisor spoke to you about his mortgage. That’s a total data breach and is not permitted.