My son’s nursery are being ridiculous, right?

[FoxyLoxSox]

Has anyone else experienced this?

So DS is 1, and has been attending the nursery since June. Goes four days a week. Had a week off in July for conjunctivitis, totally expected a bout of an illness or two when he started, normal I know. Duly juggled with work to keep him home.

On the 26th August I got a call to say he’d got diarrhoea, please come get him and keep him off for 48 hours after the last instance, as per policy, fair enough- he did indeed turn out to have a d&v bug. Duly juggled work to keep him home, even though he was right as rain within 24 hours, we kept him off for four nursery days to let it totally clear his system and let him get his appetite back etc. Totally clear of any symptoms.

Returned him to nursery happy as Larry. I get a call the next day to day he’d done one loose poo and to come and collect and keep him off for 48 hours at least. Was pretty pissed off as he was bouncing around and did no concerning poos whatsoever but again, kept him off. This was really tricky this time as we both had deadlines to meet, I can’t work from home at all, DH can to an extent but needs to do calls etc and WFH is definitely not encouraged by his office. Neither of us have other adults to help, no family nearby etc. we can’t take annual leave without notice. We keep him off for the 48 hours, he does a couple of loose teething poos, absolutely no diarrhoea whatsoever.

The next Wednesday at roughly the same time, I get a call to say again, one incident of ‘wet poo’ and can I pick up. Now I work compressed full time hours which is pretty horrible really but it means I get Mondays off to be with my baby plus I finish at lunchtime on a Wednesday. Since we have to pay for the full day anyway I use that time to do all the shit I don’t have time for the rest of the week but usually pick DS up early to spend some time with him. They know I finish early on a Wednesday because I explained it when he did his settling sessions.

That time I pushed back a bit but they insisted I’d be putting their staff at risk if I didn’t collect him forthwith and keep him off. That meant he didn’t return until the following Tuesday as obviously no point putting him in at 4pm on a Friday afternoon. DH went out of his mind a bit for the next two days trying to work with DS at home who was his absolute lively normal self and tearing around like Crash Bandicoot.

At this point we seek medical advice to ask why there are random incidents of this loose nappy to be told it’s all totally within the normal spectrum of baby poo and teething, diet and milk consumption can all very easily cause a loose bowel movement and she agreed that one instance of this every few days is a ridiculous reason to kick DS out of nursery.

Thursday last week I happened to have a day of annual leave (which nursery didn’t know) but was at an eye appointment when they called and said, another loose poo, really wet with little substance, please collect. I said no. DH wasn’t even in the country at this time either. I explained to them about the GP visit, they said ok provide a doctors note to confirm. The manager even said ‘we know it’s not norovirus and this is getting silly every week’ I agreed. I rang the GP and she very kindly fired me an email to say not infectious, normal for a baby etc etc.

Picked him up at 5, they say he had ‘just’ done another very loose poo and therefore can’t come in the next day. He was again fine all bloody weekend with no conceding poo whatsoever.

I mean I don’t know what to do at this point. Surely they can’t keep doing this for loose baby poo ?!!

I know they are having a major staffing issue right now with a couple of long term ones leaving and not being replaced, they regularly have bank staff in or workers doing extra shifts, I feel for them I do but this is a completely untenable situation for us and I’m getting worried about my job, as is DH.

I asked today for why concerning nappies to be photographed so I can see but they’ve mumbled something about ‘safeguarding’

Its really upsetting me as I didn’t want to put DS in nursery yet at all, but financially staying at home with him is just not an option 😩

DS had a reaction to apple juice. Some food products use apple juice as a natural sweetener rather than sugar. Any possibility that nursery are doing that?

Can also have temporary lactose intolerance after a bug

You probably will have to find another nursery.

in the meantime, I would push back by asking for a detailed accounting of everything they are feeding him. Tell them you will keep a food journal at home as well. You are looking for patterns. Be sure to ask about ingredients in named dishes. Applesauce or juice with sugar substitutes, meat with grain fillers, , anything labeled low-fat because to get that way it often has all sorts of interesting ingredients.

This is ridiculous. At DD's nursery, it would only be a send home for 2 incidences of loose poo within an hour.

Both DH and I have worked in childcare for years and I agree they're being ott.

They're absolutely correct that you send home an ill child. The EYFS states that childcare professionals must minimise the spread of infection. It's a statutory document and as such if you don't then you're in breach of your insurance, say for example there was an outbreak they'd be investigated and possibly shut down. This is why they would have asked for something in writing, to protect themselves.

Where I feel they are lacking is the common sense to get to the bottom of the issue. I disagree re it being teething poo. Teething doesn't cause diarrhoea and the NHS website recognises this. However when children teeth they put their hands in their mouth a lot or toys and pick up germs and can get diarrhoea that way. So germs can spread. Or it could be something else entirely, perhaps getting used to nursery food or an intolerance? The fact that he's fine at home indicates that either they're not being truthful or maybe his body is responding to new food. Are the poos soon after eating? Or it could just be his normal poo and what he's normally like but they think it's not normal and you do.

Ask to see their sickness policy and make sure they're following it. Typically you'd send a child home after only one bout if it was horrific and explosive. More usually a "wet" one, you'd wait for 3 bouts. If you have a Google there's actually something official written about 3 bouts. However I would and have sent a child home after one bout. On one occasion child was fine at home and on the other occasion they'd already passed it to me and I was off ill for a week unpaid. That's the other thing to consider, nursery staff don't typically get sick pay, so they HAVE to make sure illness doesn't spread, also to make sure they stay in ratio. Not your problem of course, but it's a factor in their choices and policies.

Once youve read their policy think about asking about timing of nappies and whether its directly after food. Also ask them to send nappies home, I have done this before for parents.

Fwiw my daughter was ill for 6 months when she first started nursery, but now at 10 years old she rarely gets ill.

It sounds like they need less children!
Ask for a food diary, insist on keeping nappies.
keep saying no to pick up and refer to Dr Note.
They sound ridiculous!

The bottom line is this;

Your (and DH) working hours/ domestic support/ parenting issues are your concern and responsibility only; they are of absolutely no interest or concern to any nursery, childminder or school.

A nursery , child minder and school is only responsible for the safety of The GROUP ( the health and safety of all other children and their staff).

The only route left for you to explore, is the content of your child's nappies; so ask the nursery to bag and keep any suspect poo. Then you can show it to your GP and only then can s/he decide if this is within normal poonami or requires further investigation.

From experience of a zillion poo nappies, yes, babies in normal health do sometimes produce a poonami of liquid poo resulting from a new food, teething or a slight fever etc. But, IIRC none of mine did so quite as often as you describe.
So, word of caution, don't rush to blame the nursery for their close attention to your child's bowels.

I’d ask for a meeting with the manager. If you explain that your child is not ill and so they need to react accordingly, then if they keep banging on about their policy and are not willing to adjust it, then you can explain that you will need to move your child.

That's insane. DS has always had this, it's just how he is, and nursery never called once. They only called once in two years when he developed a cough and fever whilst at school.

It's a total pain to move nurseries I know, but right now it seems like they're not acting as full childcare anyway! Can you schedule a meeting with the nursery manager and explain what's going on and that you'll move him if things don't change?

Absolutely I do know our wider childcare issues aren’t their problem, but if they are sending him home unnecessarily they probably haven’t considered the fact that lots of parents don’t have a spare adult knocking about to help or jobs that really don’t allow short notice time off or WFH or just dropping work in the middle of the day for what isn’t a good enough reason.

I work in a nursery. Our policy is that parents are asked to collect a child if they've had three loose poos in one day (we also have the rule that they remain off for 48 hours after being sick, which also applies to staff).

Their protocol is ridiculously OTT, especially given how common wet poos are when teething.

I also have a child that was fairly sensitive and anything slightly off like too much fruit or dairy created loose poos. School and nursery have a 3 strike rule for him.

Yeah there may be a dietary issue going on…. Food diary is a good shout. There is a nursery app but they’re pretty lax at updating it.

Does he drink apple juice? We found nappies improved enormously after removing from my child's diet.

I’d be trying work out why it’s happening at nursery and nowhere else? Are they feeding him something you don’t and he’s reacting to it?

Toddler diarreah?

Also no need to be of for conjunctivitis.

I'd be looking for another nursery.

This just seems ridiculous, I have a 16 month old and about half of his poos are a nice soft solid and half are really very loose depending on what he’s been eating and how much water and milk he drinks but that’s completely normal for him.
I would be asking them what consistency of shit is acceptable to them as not everybody craps out a perfect textured shape and consistency of poo every time🙄

This is ridiculous OP - I would definitely be looking at changing his nursery. DO they know anything about babies? Or poo in general? Let's be honest, even our poo as adults is not the exact same every single day - so why would a baby's? They should be able to tell the difference between a baby who is unwell and one who has just done a poo.

Does he eat a lot of grapes or fruit generally?

Grapes make my daughters poo’s very soft. so we try not to let her have loads the night before nursery.

He doesn’t actually eat loads of anything…. We are working on it. No juice. Only just one so still on formula.

I was probably being over cautious with conjunctivitis but he was under the weather generally and nursery wouldn’t have him without drops, couldn’t get them over the counter and by the time of gave got a prescription.. so managed at home with saline baths etc.

Thank you, I don’t live anywhere near Islington unfortunately.

Have you ever been shown the actual policy?

Our nursery had a PDF handbook which contained the guidance about how they managed sickness/ potentially contagious illnesses.

I’d be asking to see a copy of their policy because it sounds like someone has got the wrong end of the stick about when parents should be contacted, or worse, they’re looking to reduce their numbers at the parents’ expense.

I'm a childminder. One loose nappy every few days does not mean they have diarrhoea! Lots of things can cause it,even teething ( which some will say isn't a thing but it absolutely is)- I have a child in my care who has toddler diarrhoea; he's not ill, has no allergies etc.....just loose poo's! Which are messy but certainly not contagious or caused by illness!

Ask to see the policy. Is it a nursery chain?

I would be crying with frustration!

Sounds like they are taking the piss. Change nurseries.

My son has fairly loose poos all the time and my nursery has not sent him home. I did have a childminder like this and it always happened when she had no other kids that day 🤔she turned out to be a bit crackers.

Change nurseries and tell them why you are leaving so they know how unreasonable they are being and that it is likely to cost them business.