What's worse for the children - the abuse, or leaving and breaking up the family?

[NoGoodAnswers]

Have NC for this...as everything is shit really.
I don't know where to turn. I keep hearing of how much divorce, breaking up the family fucks up kids. Know a couple of friend's who still have not recovered fully, still in therapy.
But on the other hand, does being in this family with the abuse - does that affect them? If they even know about it, though. Maybe they don't.

Kids are 11 and 8; it's been going on since before I was even pregnant with DS (older). Every couple of weeks more or less, we fight. He shouts and calls me names. Throws plates at me. Slaps me around. Not seriously though, so never any bruises. I call him names too. I can't help myself.

But the thing is, this takes place in the evening, after the kids are gone to bed.
We go downstairs to the kitchen - it's got a massive think rolling door that we keep closed. I don't think they can hear us. They've definitely not seen it happening.

So what is the least bad solution, what fucks them up least...

I don't even know what I want. I want to not dread the effects on them.

I'll put in voting:
AIBU: divorce affects them most
AINBU: if they're aware of the domestic stuff that fucks them up worse

Please get some support for example from women's aid and rl support- confide in friends and family about what is happening. You shouldn't have to live with domestic violence like this and your dc are in the house and getting older and less likely to be oblivious. It absolutely will mess your dc up if they ever become aware of it and you haven't left him. It will definitely be affecting you as well. You deserve so much more and your dc deserve a family life without violence being any part of it.

Don't fool yourself into thinking your children do not know, that they cannot hear or see what is happening
Your friends children are not in therapy because they divorced, but because of what they witnessed.
Do you really think that you are modelling good, respectful relationships to your children?
You should also be aware that children can experience the effects of domestic violence whilst in utero. A woman being abused will have high levels of adrenalin and cortisol, this is not good for the developing baby.
Do yourself and your children a favour and remove yourself from this abusive situation

When my parents -who only ever fought after bedtime downstairs in our big house, supposedly out of earshot, nothing ever broken or physical- separated, the relief I felt, aged 10, was immense. A different, lighter sadness followed, but the absolute dread I had felt for years about the hidden conflict in our home literally evaporated over night and I felt I could relax for the first time in a long while.

AINBU

Both options will lead to some fall out, but by leaving you will be showing then that this behaviour is not acceptable. Abuse generally escalates so who knows what they will witness in the future if you stay.

My grandfather was abusive. My gran didn'tleave until she was in her late 50's. My DM and uncle now have nothing to do with him.

Understandable, but they also hold a LOT of resentment towards my Grandmother for staying.

Oh....a lot of the abuse was when they were in bed. I'll guarantee your kids already know or can feel the tension, and as they get older and bedtimes get later they'll be even more aware.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. What is best for the children is the same as what is best for you - to get out of this relationship. You all deserve to be safe and secure in your own home, not scared of when the next fight will break out, or worry about how bad it might be next time.

I think children are cleverer than we give them credit for. You may think you are hiding it well but they may know something is wrong. They may pick up on your fear, the tension between you. You may not be as quiet as you think.

Staying is always worse. My parents would argue and I’d be upstairs crying listening to them.

My husband and I have separated and although it’s taken some time, daughter is well settled and gets quality time with both of us now at each of our stress free homes with none of that awkwardness or walking on eggshells

I grew up with an abusive father and it still effects me now , I wish my mum had had the courage to leave him. It took me a long time to know what a normal relationship is

My mum and step dad argued nearly daily. I wished with all my heart she’d left him.

She didn’t. She died and left chaos.

I would never let my children grow up like that.

Staying is so much worse.
Which is why, children who live in a home where abuse occurs are now legally classed as victims in their own right.

I’m surprised neighbours haven’t called the police if these loud arguments are constant; it will be taken out of your hands if that happens
Surely you can’t be really nice to each other and then suddenly the kids go to bed and he’s violent? so there must be a lot of tension.
I hope you can get help x

The abuse is much worse. I'm 60 and have had come PTSD from the abuse I saw and experienced as a child. I have never recovered. I prayed for my mother to leave but she never did and I left home at 16 cemetery funked up in the head.
It took me years to recover.

of course the kids know, even if they don't see it (you can't be completely sure they don't) that abuse reflects onto their personalities, the trauma from divorce is way better because they can heal from that trauma, the trauma from abuse never really goes away unless they get out early, i think you need to divorce him for your childrens sake in a safe way, talk to womens charities or to other abuse survivors that escaped

But I can't, I can't bear thinking that it will happen - I'll leave, and then the kids will be depressed, or go off the rails - or god forbid worse, cut themselves, like my friend's child. And it will all be because of separating the family, breaking their world.
There's so so much research on how divorce affects children. I'll always regret doing it to them, and it would be too late.

Rescue them from the abuse.

My married parents really damaged me. It's nonsense that married parents are always best. The dynamic between the two parents can be toxic, neutral or positive.

We've a nice house, plenty of space. That's why I think the kids don't hear it either.
Yes there's tension, but that's just normal by now. We're very good in front of the children, talk normally etc.

The abuse. It's affectes my entire life as I've never been able to trust men and remain scared of them after growing in a household of DV.

My parents weren't even in an abusive relationship and I was relieved when they divorced.

I used to feel tense every night in bed waiting for the arguing to start. I couldn't sleep until it was over.

If you think your kids don't know you are kidding yourself.

but what about if your husband starts hurting them, you can't guarantee that he won't, he's an abuser they don't care and you might die stopping him and then what, your children end up with a dead mother and trapped with an abusive father - it's cruel to say and i really feel awful for you but you have to get out, children self harm when they come from abusive backgrounds it's not just divorce. There's also lots of research how abuse affects children, even carrying over into their relationships where they themselves get trapped into abusive partners because they think that's what a normal relationship looks like

This.

A nice house, plenty of space??

We lived in a 5 bed detached house .. big old Victorian building. I still heard them 🤷‍♀️

They can hear. They know.
Do NOT justify is as he doesn’t leave bruises. This is a toxic relationship. Growing up with this is more likely to damage them than seeing their parents apart but happy.

Your children will know. You cannot keep it from them, you are fooling yourself if you think you are.
You are damaging them every single day, much, much more than having parents who separate ever will.
You need to get some self respect and contact womens aid or refuge and leave. If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for your children.
Your job, as a mother, is to protect and safeguard your children from issues like this, something you aren't doing at present.
Childrens services can get involved due to domestic violence, you need to take this issue seriously.

@NoGoodAnswers would you not be free to pay more attention to your daughter's needs if you were single?

I have been. I have a good relationship with my daughter I haven't had to keep her quiet, not to annoy her father, persuade her the madness is normal...
My mother projected a lot on to me. She and my dad messed me up. I'm OK now.

Take it from someone who endured it as a child. The abuse. Even if it's happening at night, we know.

You can support them through the separation and divorce. Trauma has much much less of an impact on children if they receive the correct support going forward.

You can’t support them through the abuse. Don’t kid yourself that they don’t know - they know. Think about the effects of the fear on them. Also you are modelling what a relationship is for them. They will grow up with skewed values.

Don’t compare your situation to anyone else’s. You don’t know the full story of what happens in anyone else’s relationship and household.

Time to plan to end it.