What's worse for the children - the abuse, or leaving and breaking up the family?

[NoGoodAnswers]

Have NC for this...as everything is shit really.
I don't know where to turn. I keep hearing of how much divorce, breaking up the family fucks up kids. Know a couple of friend's who still have not recovered fully, still in therapy.
But on the other hand, does being in this family with the abuse - does that affect them? If they even know about it, though. Maybe they don't.

Kids are 11 and 8; it's been going on since before I was even pregnant with DS (older). Every couple of weeks more or less, we fight. He shouts and calls me names. Throws plates at me. Slaps me around. Not seriously though, so never any bruises. I call him names too. I can't help myself.

But the thing is, this takes place in the evening, after the kids are gone to bed.
We go downstairs to the kitchen - it's got a massive think rolling door that we keep closed. I don't think they can hear us. They've definitely not seen it happening.

So what is the least bad solution, what fucks them up least...

I don't even know what I want. I want to not dread the effects on them.

I'll put in voting:
AIBU: divorce affects them most
AINBU: if they're aware of the domestic stuff that fucks them up worse

Your children already know. The children ALWAYS know.

growing up in a home with abuse is going to make it very difficult for the children to form healthy relationships as adults. It won’t be impossible, but it will be hard, and there may be painful mistakes along the way. You can dramatically increase the odds of raising adults who understand healthy relationships by getting your children out of that environment.

The bad atmosphere is worse. I speak from childhood experience. A tantrumming, spiteful, sometimes violent mother and an enabling father. I wish he’d had more strength, he was not a weak man in other ways. I have little respect for him now.

My step children tell me that despite my DP thinking they didnt hear anything they knew exactly what was going on and they were relieved when he finally left.......He was the abused party not the abuser.

They are both in counselling now that they are adults because the courts decided to leave them with their mother and DP only got 50% of school holidays visitation. Their mother is a narcissistic alcoholic who just switched her abusive behaviour to them when DP left but wasnt physically violent towards them. But despite that both say they are glad their parents divorced and wish DP had left sooner.

Wtaf did I just read?

Of course the abuse is worse.
It's absolutely disingenuous to suggest that divorce could be more harmful and you are making excuses for staying with a shit man who traumatises you and also your kids.
Awful.

Accept that you are making excuses and change it. For your kids! FFS.

Growing up with domestic violence at home is worse. I am a mental health professional . I have yet to work with anyone (adult or child) severely affected by parents separating. I have worked with many who are badly effected by growing up in a house with DV, who resent both the abuser and the parent who failed to leave (it is not your fault but a child cannot rationalise that properly). A safe home is so so important, whether or not your parents live in the same home.

I always knew there was violence in my mothers relationship, years before she started limping after a beating etc because things escalated.

Your children know there is something wrong. They might not know exactly what it is, but they know.

What kind of atmosphere is in the house after a fight. You say you put up a front but realistically these fights have an impact. Do you have to tip-toe around your DH to avoid a row.

I am not going to lie it can take years to get over an abusive relationship, but many women find they are much happier, better mothers when they get out from the bad relationship.

As for the kids divorce is better then being raised in an abusive relationship.

I guarantee your children know & that will do more harm than a divorce. You are demonstrating what relationships are meant to be like & by tolerating the abuse you are implying that this is the way relationships are & how women should be treated.

Please please leave. Kids pick up on so much more than just being in the room when physical abuse is happening. They will see your bruising, they will see you walking on egg shells around your partner , they'll hear the shouting/put downs and witness the control. And they will grow up to think this is normal and what they should expect in relationships themselves. You're not going to damage your kids by leaving, you can explain to them in age appropriate ways that what was happening at home was not safe or normal and you had the right to take them somewhere safe and happier because you all deserve respect and to be loved in a way that doesn't hurt. What an amazing lesson for them to be able to learn from you. Get support for womens aid, they'll also support the kids and help you to find the words to explain things to them. And please be careful, often things can escalate while people are making plans to leave. Best of luck to you and your kiddos

They aren't stupid, they hear it, it's horrible. Leave and be happy!

This is not a healthy or safe way to live for any of you. Your children are growing up fearful and believing this is normal behaviour. Please get out asap. Woman’s aid can help you

So, what is your masterplan?

Keeping up this charade for the next 10-15 years til they have both left home?
You think the front wont slip in that time... the violence wont escalate?
And then what are you going to do?
Your kids need to see what is not acceptable in a relationship... and that is what you are living right now.
Or would you be happy for them to repeat the pattern.... because that is what will happen if you stay in this abusive situation.... they watch and learn from the home.
Dont do that to the two people you love most in the world.

Me and my siblings had an awful childhood due to our mothers abuse, our dad never once harmed us physically, but as he chose to remain he became complicit in our abuse. By staying there he chose for us to be harmed. Eventually my younger siblings were removed, then our dad eventually left and my younger siblings were allowed to live with him. We’d all left the home by 17, while he may not have touched us, he was also responsible for our abuse, none of us saw hi as safety, or even as a parent recently. We’re all various types of fucked up, our mother is dead, none of us see our dad because he could have protected us but he chose not to.

As an adult if I hear a raised voice, particularly if I hear a raised womens voice from anothe room (even if they’re just loud due to be excited etc) it genuinely fills me with terror. As a child I heard everything, I also remember everything.

You don’t want that to happen to your children, you want them to one day tell you how happy and thankful they are that you put them first and left. There are people you can go to who can help you, you really don’t have to do it alone.

But the thing is, this takes place in the evening, after the kids are gone to bed.
We go downstairs to the kitchen - it's got a massive think rolling door that we keep closed. I don't think they can hear us. They've definitely not seen it happening.

Sorry OP but you are wrong

I've lived through a violent father. Parents divorced age 5. Then I lived with a step father from age 10 to 18 who would regularly row, shout, throw things with/at my mum. She'd regularly scream abuse back, leave in the middle of the night threatening to kill herself or say she was going to disappear and never come back. Sometimes shed drive off at 2am.and I'd be at the window watching and waiting until she returned about 6am. She thought I was asleep the whole.time.and had no clue shed gone. In reality I'd been awakw all night - first listening to the screaming, the rows, and then waiting at the window praying she hadn't killed herself and that she'd be returning.

I heard and saw a lot. I even tried to tell her several times, but she would say, "don't be ridiculous, there's no way you could have heard X, y, z". Later in life when I told her as an adult she was still adamant I could never have heard or seen anything.it made her feel better to believe the children didn't know or couldn't hear.

Children hear and see waaaaaay more than we think. Especially at night when they r lying in bed scared or (as I did) creeping out onto the landing or down stairs to specifically listen and check no-one was getting injured or killed.

Please split form this man OP. You r damaging your children staying in this relationship

If you're a regular on MN you know damn well that 99% of MN think that staying with the abuse is worse for kids. Why so disingenuous?

You’re kidding yourself if you think the kids can’t hear this I’m afraid. I wonder when the violence will transfer to them? I was a teenager when it transferred to me.

Honestly I was in turmoil for so long on what to do for the kids, hated the thought of sharing them, hated their friends mum and dad together and theirs separated, thought about staying for the kids til they were 16, we tried everything. My children are the same age as yours and they are completely fine!

You are gonna do so much more damage to them if they see abuse, none of you deserve that please leave.

Of course they hear you. You could live in a mansion and you can still hear screaming, shouting and plates being broken.

And you are 'normal' in front of children because they're already used to the constant tension? Ask yourself if you would be happy if one of your children was in a relationship like yours. Because they are learning this is what relationships are like..

The abuse is worse because not only are they aware of it they are being taught that it is normal. Leaving shows it's not acceptable and gives them an opportunity to feel safe and lead a normal life. Leaving is harder in the short run but easier in the long run.

So much research on children from separated families. Are you kidding....what are you reading? Try reading about research on children who stayed in an abusive environment throughout childhood and how it affected their own direction/mental health/relationships.

My mother was like you, she never left and I wish she had.

Leave and do better - you're children should not live in that environment.

And there’s a lot of research on how much ABUSE affects children. Believe me it’s much worse than divorce!

have you posted this on MN before? It rings a bell.

I am a child protection social worker- there is a reason we are always alerted to DV incidents by the police. Your children know and they are at risk of physical and emotional harm because of your relationship.

I am mindful you are also a victim and when I work these cases (which are the majority) it feels like all the responsibility falls to the person who is not the perpetrator. However, unfortunately it falls to you to keep your children safe. I am very aware that social work provision across local authorities is not consistent and approaches differ due to various issues. However as a SW my main priority would be to work with you and your family to be safe.

In some cases, where parents want to stay together, we have successfully worked to end DV in the relationship if both parents are on board. We have also supported women to leave, including those from cultures where this is a taboo and have been scared for their immigration status/their children being removed by their ex from the UK. Only rarely has the risk been so unmanageable that the children have been removed, very sadly this is usually couples who are young care leavers or others with childhood experiences which make this so normal they struggle to make changes for various reasons.

Your dc know
And at some point theycwill be caught in the cross fire
Who are you kidding?
You are staying for the nice big house ?

AINBU.

I used to creep downstairs as a child to listen to my parents arguing (albeit nothing physical) and I still feel sad I went through that. I'm glad they divorced as they were both much more happier apart.

Don't put your kids through this, they listen to more than you'll ever know.

Your children already know that you are being abused @NoGoodAnswers . You and your husband staying together like this is teaching them that abuse is normal and should not be talked about.

Abuse. 100 %