Tired of being scared of men

[NotLactoseFree]

I'm not really being unreasonable, I know. But it's so frustrating.

From our local shopping centre, to return to the car park there is a pedestrian crossing that runs over the vehicular entrance to the car park. Lots of signs reminding cars to stop for the pedestrian crossing etc. I was half way across on my way back to my car today when two young men pulled into the car park and clearly felt they had right of way. They then aggressively pretended to drive into me while shouting that I should look where I'm going etc. Obviously they were just OBLIVIOUS to the pedestrian crossing. I wasn't in the mood so shouted back that it's a pedestrian crossing and if they can't see that they shouldn't be driving. They were aggressive, unpleasant etc and after I'd crossed, roared past swearing at me.

Fine. Annoying, but fine.

Then I suddenly had a complete moment of panic as I realised that if they wanted to, they could very easily just drive round and continue to harass me from inside the car park etc and of course, there's never a lot of people around. So I dashed to my car prepared to hide behind other cars if they chose to come in my direction rather than heading up the ramp to the next level.

I was in the right. They didn't see a pedestrian crossing, tried to scare me, then shouted at me - all before I did a thing. But I was the one who was suddenly terrified. it makes me so angry.

Central European one . I am not sure. When I told my friends about the drink warning they raised eyebrows because we all thought that the country is developed country, so not that dangerous. Naive I guess? I think it is just a different mentality showing overall. While we are aware rapes happen (where doesn't eh...) it's the overal attitude? Also the knowledge that there is bigger chance of your friend's friend doing something to you than a random who stands 5 meters away in dark train station waiting for the same train. I do believe man here behave worse and I know this will sound like victom blaming, but I do wonder if the fact women here seem to be way more scared may be adding drops of oil into overall fire? It is hard to explain this.

I bet my shoes the woman also had some type of bullying or similar issue at school, but it was different so it feels in some way unrecognisable. If you see what I mean? I think it's the same with this.

First, women under-report. Broad brush statistics never tell the full story. (I also read somewhere that men tend to over-report, i.e. misconstrue what constitutes abuse plus promptly report incidents) though I take that with a pinch of salt.)

Secondly, women are at much higher risk of sexual violence for obvious reasons. A secondary conclusion we can take from that is that those are misogynistic crimes, whereas men will not necessarily be targeted because they are men, but because they are old, disabled, of a certain ethnicity, gay etc.

Another consideration is that male violence against women is less likely to be provoked (i.e. in the context of a drunken brawl - though I add the caveat that no violence is justified), and women are less able to defend themselves.

Also, women do take precautions - voluntarily curtailing their freedoms - to limit the possibility of an attack. Men seem not to do so to the same extent. This means that the prevalence of female victimhood could be higher if we behaved as men do.

Finally (the relevance of this comment depends what claim you're defending), it's hardly a comfort to women that men can also be victims. Doesn't make me feel any safer.

I had six unconnected experiences of poor male behaviour involving physical force (so not involving all the bloody verbal street harassment from strangers, by the way) between the ages of 14 and 21 and I only reported one. They were so much stronger than me that I didn't have a hope of resisting in the moment. No aggravating factors - I grew up in a cosy privileged bubble, it's just that eventually many will come across men of poor character because male violence is prevalent and has a misogynistic side, very often, and this because women are easily overpowered, a cheap win. Please don't tell me that my distrust of men is the result of a cultural campaign to whip up fear and encourage delusions of victimhood. I have a memory, and I listen to others' experiences. It is logical.

Oh right. Well, they do. I’m amazed your wife doesn’t. Does she make eye contact in pubs etc?

I think it's a combination of the negative effects of lockdown on mental health and an increasingly legitimized misogyny made possible by incels and other women-hating males finding a platform for their revolting views with like-minded individuals on the net. Reddit banned a Gender Critical sub from its site. The most repulsive incel groups, ones actively inciting VAWG, are still live.

Sadly I agree with this. I wonder also if part of the problem is that decent men actually have no idea whatsoever about what is going on on these platforms and so are unable to play a part in pushing back against it. I've had conversations with teen DS about incels, red pill, hardcore porn etc and my DH has listened in completely bewildered. He has no idea of the awfulness of it.

I make eye contact all the time incl in pubs and clubs.... It's nust natural. Do you like sit there looking at your table only?

I don't think that men have become any more violent nor women have become more vulnerable than either have ever been - at least in my 60 years. What is new to me are all these descriptions of living in fear from random men that you may/will come across purely because you are a woman. All these scared women fearful of strangers is very odd to me and I suspect that many of these perceptions are the result of media manipulations, some intended and some not so much.

I've come across all sorts of men, some pretty aggressive ones too - some people are just very scary people who will be violent to people whether they are a man or a woman; the sensible thing is to steer clear of those, just like you would a tiger in the wild, only an idiot would try and stroke one or provoke it.

There's some pretty scary women out there too, and there always has been.

This is where the oh so excoriated American gun culture comes in handy. I learned to handle a weapon and shoot while in my 20s. I'm in my 60s and have never feared any man. I go where I want when I want because my firearm goes with me. It is THE great equalizer. A man's size, strength or evil intent doesn't enter into the equation because my weapon is more deadly. The feeling of carrying a gun, and knowing what to do with it, is immensely freeing.

What if he’s also got a gun?

The issue with this is that man can of course have guns too so I wouldn't really see it as equaliser.

I really don't think women need guns to feel safe tbh.

My shoes mostly.

I guess we've established that you don't know what I'm talking about then. Fair enough.

Like I said, men and women have very different experiences.

Does your wife make eye contact in pubs etc?

I have to admit that I have not met men who would be mainly looking down in pubs. I am sorry that you feel you have to (not being sarcastic!)

All these scared women fearful of strangers is very odd to me and I suspect that many of these perceptions are the result of media manipulations, some intended and some not so much.

Media manipulations?

About 3% of women and 1% of men experience sexual assault (including rape) every year. Why should so many be afraid when the likelihood of not being assaulted is 97%?

But over their lifetime, 20% of women and 4% of men experience experience sexual assault (including rape). 1 in 5 women.

Add to that the unknown number of women who get away from men who have declared their intent to sexually assault them. Unknown, but which of us has not been in that situation?

Think about your own experiences (if you are a woman) and your female friends' experiences. Have men never tried to touch you without your consent? Proposition you? Refuse to take "No" for an answer? Strangers, colleagues, men you thought were friends. Has a joke or a game never gone just that tiniest bit too far and you felt their physical strength and feared what might happen next? Have you never experienced a man's hostility at being ignored or rejected? Have you never come to each other's rescue when you saw your friend being hassled by men?

If so, you are incredibly lucky.

How likely do you think it is, if she's not afraid of men?

Yes. All men are out to hurt you op

All of them

I have to admit that I have not met men who would be mainly looking down in pubs.

I haven't either, including myself, so no worries there. I was being facetious about the shoes as seriously, who would spend their entire evening looking down and not socialising?

But are you aware that some men start fights with other men, just because you look at them? Never really happens to women for obvious reasons (I'm sure women get other unwanted reactions) but has been a thing with men for as long as I can remember. Admittedly not as bad nowadays but it still pays to be cautious.

The thing isn't to spend all night looking at your shoes but being able to spot that type of man and giving them a wide berth.

This says it all really.

I wonder if the difference between those saying I am afraid of men and those saying they are not, is a matter of interpretation of what that means.

Am I afraid of all men all the time? No
But I am aware in some situations that I am on edge BECAUSE that person is a man and I am a woman? Yes. Am I aware if it kicks off I am incapable off defending myself because he is is a man and I am a woman? Yes.

I've never been scared of men. I've had my moments, of course, in 60+ years, where I've been in dodgy situations (sexual rather than aggressive) but have always managed to talk myself out of trouble.
Maybe some of it is how we present ourselves? For example my late mum used to scurry around, looking over her shoulder - I would tell her to stop as it made her look like a victim-to-be!

LifeExperience
is that “immensely freeing” feeling when you are carrying a gun worth so many deaths caused by firearms in your country? Especially as firearms are the leading cause of deaths in children one and over in USA

This is absolute rubbish. One of my colleagues was raped by one of her staff. She was a Senior Manager, as confident and self assured as they come. He raped her because he was a rapist and because he could, because he was physically bigger and stronger than her. Her inner self possession and esteem meant fuck all against his physical size and strength.

I’m a gobby wee shite, but I’m very aware that the only thing that stops a man I’m gobbing off to from decking me, is the social sanction against a man hitting a ( in my case, small) woman. I know, and I know he knows, that if he stopped caring about that sanction, he could pulverize me.

So she regularly makes eye contact with the men in pubs that you deliberately avoid making eye contact with? Why?

Ok. I am bit lost now in what os happening here so I will leave this, but yes, I am well aware men start fights just foor "looking at them badly". Of course.

Ah, well, @Notthereagain I don't gob off at anyone unless they start on me first, lol, I get icy & kinda regal & they are intimidated! ;-)
I am very sorry for your colleague & hope her rapist was castrated - well, jailed, at the very least. I guess the idiot was on some kind of power trip. :-(