Tired of being scared of men

[NotLactoseFree]

I'm not really being unreasonable, I know. But it's so frustrating.

From our local shopping centre, to return to the car park there is a pedestrian crossing that runs over the vehicular entrance to the car park. Lots of signs reminding cars to stop for the pedestrian crossing etc. I was half way across on my way back to my car today when two young men pulled into the car park and clearly felt they had right of way. They then aggressively pretended to drive into me while shouting that I should look where I'm going etc. Obviously they were just OBLIVIOUS to the pedestrian crossing. I wasn't in the mood so shouted back that it's a pedestrian crossing and if they can't see that they shouldn't be driving. They were aggressive, unpleasant etc and after I'd crossed, roared past swearing at me.

Fine. Annoying, but fine.

Then I suddenly had a complete moment of panic as I realised that if they wanted to, they could very easily just drive round and continue to harass me from inside the car park etc and of course, there's never a lot of people around. So I dashed to my car prepared to hide behind other cars if they chose to come in my direction rather than heading up the ramp to the next level.

I was in the right. They didn't see a pedestrian crossing, tried to scare me, then shouted at me - all before I did a thing. But I was the one who was suddenly terrified. it makes me so angry.

You're asking like you think it's obvious but I'm just asking a genuine question, as I'm not a woman and Dotjones makes a very good point about statistics.

I'd imagine women do but possibly differently to men because the violence is different too.

How likely is it that women would be around an aggressive male stranger and not risk assess?

FWIW @Pumperthepumper I'm coming at this as someone that's also tired of a certain type of men. I'm not saying my fear is remotely in the same ballpark but fear is there nonetheless.

O really don't like language like "risk asses". It makes it sounds so clinical, job like, if you see what I mean. Might be just me.

Anyway, anyone would consider the situation faced with aggressive men.

I'm not talking about instances where someone is clearly an aggressive person but more regular situations.

How many men get quizzed on what they were wearing when they're attacked by another man?

I genuinely found it amazing that so many people in this thread are completely ignoring the difference in physical size and strength between men and women. Well, precisely those arguing ‘men get attacked too!’ are ignoring it.

yes men do, but getting attacked by someone much bigger and stronger than you makes a difference. Feeling threatened, or the potential of threat, from someone much bigger and stronger than you makes a difference. Being aware of the threat of, or experiencing, sexual violence makes a difference.
As for the stats, you really need to know the types and degree of violence to do a meaningful comparative analysis. But even then, it’s blindingly obvious than a woman is more likely to be floored by a punch from a man than a man, as women are so much weaker.

The men I know who were attacked by men, it was scuffles and brawls that they walked away from. The women I know who were attacked by men were raped, sexually assaulted or fended off a sexual assault or a passer by saved them. The blood from one women covered the doorway to her flat. Another had the shit kicked out of her in the stairwell to her home by a violent ex Who followed her home.

Totally agree with you @lifelongaway

Honestly we should just get rid of men or set up women only towns and villages with security at the entrances

I do wonder often what ot i about UK behaviour and how that came to be.
While we of course also have rapists and pervs, never have I hear or experienced things on the level like here.
Incluing drink spiking. I thought people were joking when I first moved here and they were horrified I would just leave a drink on table and go dance. Well I was horrified they wouldn't. Then it continued with "omg you can't just walk home by yourself in dark like this", "omg you can't wait for taxi after clubbing by uourself, are you crazy".
I hav never before experienced things like that, honestly.We normally took late night trains by ourselves where I am from, walked by ourselves, still do. My mum and friends still go for forest walks alone. Walk alone happily from pubs... While sometimes bad things happen, it's just nowhere near to here level. Adult man shouting perverty things from cars at girls near chools. Fuck no.

Uk is such a differrnt world. And I just never understood why.

Like what?

Walking down the street, going out in the evening, at the pub with friends, down the park etc.

I'll give a few examples.

Recently a few mates (dads all 50+) were at a taxi rank waiting and minding their own business. A group of young lads came along and decided that they could prove themselves by putting them all in hospital. It turns out this gang has form as is how they spend their weekends, beating the crap out of random men for fun. My mate isn't quite the same, as you'd expect, and is now constantly on edge, sizing up other men in fear that it might happen again.

Another group of mates are Pakistani and have been beaten and abused regularly since 9/11. These are men that would be walking down the street but then set upon randomly.

As an East Asian myself, I too have been wary of going out since covid. So there is solidarity and some understanding of what women go through.

If your answer @Pumperthepumper is yes, women do size men up, irrespective of whether they look aggressive or not, then I guess we share similar concerns. That was what I was getting at, when responding to DotJones. It may not have the same outcomes as the violence inflicted is different but yes, men are also fearful of other men.

Again, how likely is it that women wouldn’t risk assess in those circumstances? What makes you think they wouldn’t?

Yes, it's exhausting. Try to give a bit of attitude in your body language. Be cheeky, if it's safe. I was walking past a school at pick up time, and men were barrelling out of the place like they were on a car racetrack!

@Bubblebubblebah

That's really interesting. What country have you come from?

I remember a woman of indian-asian descent saying she moved to the UK as a school girl and was shocked at the bullying. She said it just never happened the school in the country she came from.

I'm not saying whether they do or don't. I'm just asking the question as I'm not a woman and my life experiences are different.

Sorry I wasn't asking a question but just saying I wasn't sure if women do.

And are you still not sure?

I thought I was fearless. Then I got a fit bit and saw huge spikes which made no sense when I went walking on an evening. And then, over time, it became clear where these spikes landed. Guy walking too close behind me, walking past a bunch of leery men falling out of a pub, some fella eyeballing me as walk past. Turns out I'm not that fearless, I just wasn't adding words to the background threats. Apparently not hurting men's feelings extended to my internal monologue but my adrenaline was having none of it.

I’ve had men follow men around shops, touch me inappropriately and in one incident one grabbed me and kissed me while I stood frozen in fear and shock.
I’ve never had a woman do any of these things to me. As long as men like that are around (and there was no similarities between any of these men, the only common denominator is they were all men) I will remain fearful of being alone.
the worst I’ve had from women is a dirty look or raised voice. The threat level is not the same

Anecdotally I believe it's got exponentially worse since lockdown. It's as though a pressure cooker has been gradually building up steam and the lid has finally burst open.

I was travelling on the train, early evening, last September, on a table seat (first mistake. I won't be taking table seats anymore). A man boarded, made a great song and dance about taking the opposite seat (not the diagonal one, facing), left a long scarf dangling from the luggage rack right in my face which I impatiently shoved away, then starting the 'knee brush', that plausible-deniability kind of act with which we were all familiar.

I heard a click, looked up, and saw his phone pointing at me. The fucker was taking my picture. And as I glared, he kept the phone pointing at me and I'm fairly certain he was filming me. That was the point at which I removed myself to the furthest possible carriage, and had he followed at that point I'd have called the transport police.

My female students talked to me of numerous incidents: one who worked in a bar til the small hours asked me should she inform the police that a carful of raucous males had tried to drag her into their car. I heard numerous variations on the same theme.

I think it's a combination of the negative effects of lockdown on mental health and an increasingly legitimized misogyny made possible by incels and other women-hating males finding a platform for their revolting views with like-minded individuals on the net. Reddit banned a Gender Critical sub from its site. The most repulsive incel groups, ones actively inciting VAWG, are still live.

Doesn't matter how 'streetwise' women are: were we in Sarah Everard's tragic position it could just as easily have been us. And if it were, you can bet your boots it will be the woman who's deemed to be in the 'wrong place at the wrong time', not the man who saw fit to violate, rape, and murder her.

Given 25% have voted the other way and there are some women saying they don't fear men at all then I think I'm justified is my uncertainty. My wife certainly doesn't fear men either, so doesn't help my curiosity but appreciate that some here do.

That's it really, nothing untoward on my part but you seem to keep asking questions and not giving an opinion. I've already posted some of my experiences. I also tend not to make eye contact in pubs, clubs and other situations but can imagine my fears are likely to be different to yours

Male violence is a problem.
It is not an equal problem to both sexes.

I go running, off road mostly. I feel safest in very quiet countryside where it would take an agressor a huge amount of patience to loiter for any chance of a passing victim to approach. I am more wary in quiet, but known places where there is a trickle of people. My main fear is sexual assault. Mugging could be an issue, but the limit of theft would be a mediocre sports watch and phone. DH would not fear the sexual assault in that location. He is taller than 70% of men so has no significant disadvantage against most men. I'm smaller than 99% of men. I'm a fit, strong woman, but if I can't reach to punch, that's no use. My running training is easily mocked by the advantage of legs 6" longer than mine.

Male-male violence is a problem, but if a man swerves gangs/ drugs/ rowdy, drunken crowds, the chances of a stranger assault dwindles massively. I doubt many men assess the appearence/ purpose of most men they pass when out for a walk/ jog in the way that women often do.

I try not to let my sex inhibit my choices. I go where I like, and running at night in well-lit areas is as much about trip hazards as who may be lurking in the shadows, but there is an awareness of personal safety there that DH rarely thinks about.

There is an added layer of victim blaming on women that men don't face. We don't hear "why was he out in the dark/ park?" or "what was he wearing". I've seen advice pitched at women about not having hair in a grabbable style or wearing feminine colours (as if that would camoflage my typically female shape and height).

Some self-awareness is a good thing for either sex. Women avoiding places like woods to the detriment of their quality of life solves nothing. Listening to victims (of both sexes) and getting more aggressive thugs off the streets does help. Male violence needs recognising and acting on along with the different patterns it manifests in.