How to spot the shite fathers early on?

[StellaStacey]

I'm newly single in my late 20s. I want to think about settling down and starting a family with someone.

I see so many of the same sort of posts on here about women having children with their partners and the father not being a parent at all or doing any household chores whatsoever. The man insisting he has a right to undisrupted sleep because he works a paid job and has zero appreciation to the hard work and exhaustion that goes into raising a child. I seriously at points consider staying childless because I don't think I can cope with this kind of setup and want to avoid it at all costs, not only because of how physically exhausting it must be but the mental torment of a partner completely disrespecting and think so little of you as the mother of their child. I know I would never get over the resentment. I read some of the posts on here and I want to scream at these men who are driving their partners to such breaking point for being completely and utterly useless. My god you are heros and extremely resilient if you have been in this situation.

As I jump onto the dating scene again I wanted to ask, are these useless twats easy to spot early on? Are there warning signs? If you ended up in this situation was it obvious looking back that it would be like that but you were love blind to the signs? What are the red flags? Did your DP completely change when a baby came along or did they always have these tendencies to avoid all responsibility?

Sometimes you really can't tell. My ex-DH was a fabulous boyfriend and husband before children. The only issue was the fact he was an insomniac - sometimes he was a bit tired but he put it to one side. After kids though he became really anxious. I believe it was the anxiety that killed our relationship - had to have uninterrupted sleep, but then complain of tiredness; he literally not doing anything but also insisted DCs couldn't be left alone; the worst days were when he was so tired he'd tell me to take both children out for the day so he could "rest" - they were both under 5 at the time and I just wanted a bit of a rest myself.

DH has turned out to be a good'un (so far). Considering our relationship is largely due to a contraceptive failure, this is a relief!
In retrospect, the good signs were:

• happy to go along with my ideas or suggestions for what we did rather than do things his way
• happy for me to see my friends on a regular basis (including make friends)
• generally having no drama in his life. A mix of long standing friends and newer friends; gets on with his parents but doesn't see them all the time. Just quite stable relationships
• had female friends as well as male friends. Quite a few of the female friends took me to one side relatively early in our relationship and said he was a nice guy

Having said all of the above, crucially, I have remained financially independent throughout and, whilst he now significantly out earns me and we have a much nicer lifestyle because of it, I could walk away whenever I wanted and we'd be OK. Life isn't always a bed of roses! I perhaps should have paid more attention to the fact that his flat was fairly messy, that he watched a lot of sport when he wasn't with me/out with friends and never bought me random flowers or boxes of chocolates or whatever even in the early days so the chances of him doing so 15 years in are low! Do I care about that? It niggles but, in the grand scheme of things, no! I'm also conscious his list of things I do which annoy him is probably much longer!

@ILoveMonday what an incredibly hard situation that must have been for you xxx

1. He does what he says he will.
2. He doesn’t call you names.
3. Doesn’t raise his voice to you.
4. Isn’t into drugs or heavy alcohol use.
5. Cares about his family.
6. He can cook
7. Can hold down a job.

If you end up participating or spectating in his big interest and seeing his friends/family all the time rather than yours, I think that's an issue. Particularly if he'd still go, and you'd see less of him if you didn't. Particularly if he's sulky if it's ever "your turn."

Avoid men who haven’t got any friends.

Spot lazy traits early. If they are lazy before a baby they are not going to pull their weight.

@TheNefariousOrange You beat me to it! I'm afraid all the red flags are not always present till well after you've already got children. In my Hs case they appeared after about 7 years when he suddenly got a bit of success and started earning quite well. Became bossy , lazy about domestic stuff but manic about work and somewhat controlling to me -quite materialistic too and had never been so before. In all fairness though he's actually been a very good dad , just not always a very good husband.

It's interesting the amount of answers on here that are actually describing not being an abusive husband, and overlooking the domestic and childcare responsibilities, so not actually answering the question. Part of the problem is so many women have bars set so low that not being abusive is the goal rather than the bare minimum.

You can't spot the signs in many cases. That's why its recognised that often domestic abuse starts in pregnancy.

The big red flag is any man with kids they aren't really involved with as the ex 'won't let him'. Other than that they hide in plain sight supported by their flying monkeys.

DH grew up without a meaningful father in his life he wanted to be there for the DCs, unfortunately this doesn't necessarily translate into having a clue when the shirt hits the fan as it simply has never been modelled to him.

I am convinced that you can't really tell with certainty. Parenthood is such a life changing experience that you can't predict how people (both mothers and fathers) will react to it based on their previous behaviour. Only that mothers usually have no choice.

Looking at my friends experience, there are guys who were near perfect before the baby was born, but then got disappointed and sailed away into the sunset. And there are also guys who were... well, to put it kindly, manchildren before the fatherhood, who had suddenly straightened up and got their life in order.

Yeah, I said something similar in my reply as I've noticed this more often on MN lately and wonder where it's coming from.

I wonder if it's a societal shift. It reminds me of the 80s Thatcher era contempt for women who were single mothers.

Some men are Oscar worry actors. Hard to know in the beginning sadly. And some completely change their personality once the baby arrives.

The more I read this thread the most I think you just can't ever tell.

One of the best dads I've ever met is an ex drug/alcoholic who has a background of theft/lots of sexual partners and even prison.

He got sole residency when his ds was 3 years old (unfortunately the mum is still an alcoholic). He's been clean/sobar for 14 years and still attends meetings and sponsors people, has built a successful business and lives a very clean, healthy life. His ds is now 15 and doing well and he has always made a big effort for his ds to see his maternal grandparents/family.

You really can never tell!

And cricketers. Anybody that can go out for eight hours to play or watch a game for that length of time when there are children at home and ferrying back and forth to different places to do is definitely one to avoid. Selfish.

I think the most important thing is to know your worth and don’t settle for less than what you deserve. You deserve someone who respects and shows love every day. That will be the father of your children. Unfortunately I came to that realisation too late.

Of course you can't always tell and men do change.

However, sometimes you can. It's not as if no information at all can be gleaned from their early behaviour. That being said, I find it really hard to judge people, men especially.

There's a certain kind of charming, confident man that I always distrust nowadays.

I totally agree.
If he has a child/children already, how he talks about the child's mother is a good indicator.
I have no idea how my ex described me but i take a wild guess that it is 100% opposite of the truth.
5 kids later from 3 mums, neither that he sees, says it all really.

Seriously hot guys, great in bed - like omfg great. Charmers, the guys that light up a room and can charm the pants off a nun.
serious fun to go out with, for you and the 4 others he’s seeing on the side.
Thats my dad (obviously the wow in bed part my mum - who was also a side chick of his back in the day relayed this info, during a ‘but why? Conversation)
He’s great fun to be around, still charming the ladies well into his twilight years. Shite dad though, to me and his other kids. he’s a real flash Harry too, but everyone who meets him loves him.
my other half is nothing like him, he’s kind, reliable, financially secure and a good dad, bit boring, quiet and pretty reserved.

I wasn’t making the same mistake as my mum, not for anything.

I had all these things with my husband. He was good, kind, lovely, sensible with money, good with children etc.
I am now living my absolute worst life. There were no red flags at the beginning (and believe me I look for them!) They all came out after our first child together.
I wish there was a way to know before you get together...!!

And please, for God's sake, spend at least half the time that you spend planning a wedding on planning the marriage! Talk. Talk about handling finances, talk about handling household chores. Talk about child rearing. Talk about it all. AND LISTEN. Most men will give things away when talking about those things.

I mean that as a general "you." I am aware that our OP is not currently looking at one particular candidate.

Sounds like you are to demanding and totally disrespect your partner who may have a demanding stressful job, and does not need to come home to a moaner.

I definitely do this. Its my hobby, though, and I need to express myself.