To turn down a job because they refused flexible working even though it was higher paid.

[SummerFlops]

I have been offered a job which is more money. Not massively loads. It's in my home town so no travel costs. So taking into account that and the slightly higher pay, I would be better off by £190 per month.

I asked if I could work flexibly in the mornings and afternoons to do a school run for one academic year so till July 2023. I would make the time up by working earlier from home and later in the evening. School run takes 20 mins max there and back so 40 mins of the day total.

The reason why I asked was so that I could help out my partner who has to do 2 school runs at different schools so pretty hectic. No after school club possible. This is just for this academic year and then she will be fine as eldest will be in secondary and can make own way.

The manager refused saying that that isn't what they do and there's an expectation that everyone needs to be in the office and available at any time if anything comes up. Like what i have no idea - I am not an ER doctor or anything. She also insinuated that I wasn't committed to the job by asking this.

Looks like they don't have a flexible working culture and I feel like turning the offer down but at the same time the extra money would be nice too!

YABU - of course they don't have to accept your request and you're being silly for expecting it.

YANBU - they don't seem like a forward thinking organisation and they'll be other stuff stuck in the dark ages. Run for the hills.

With the extra money you will be making, why can’t you hire a childminder?

I don't get it, why this need to be so restrictive. It is proven people work better when it is flexible. My ex had always got the work done in the right amount of hours and can just go off and do the school runs, go to the shops etc.. as long as the work gets done. And this flexibility and respect makes him work harder for them.

If you don't like the company rules don't take the job.

And yes with covid etc many companies have become enlightened about the possibilities of WFH and being flexible, employees with stress/anxiety/disabilities being able to take breaks when they want, wear what they want, and as a result working better.

I do hiring and I think if we really wanted to hire someone we would work something out
I wouldn't however have been impressed with this coming up at first interview stage it may have put me off if it was equal with you and someone else ! If we got to offer stage and it came up as part of a negotiation I think that would be different as they already want to employ you and then need to work with you on the details - I think you put it out too early tbh and put them off - if someone else is interviewing and has no conditions then I think typically and employer would go with the easier option.

Yes but at the same time there’s also been a massive increase in entitled bratty people acting like work is a massive inconvenience and that any employer is lucky to have them, for the snippets of time that they deign to leave their children/dog and actually go to fucking work. At the same time insisting they’re ten times as productive as they used to be 🙄

People experienced a brief time with massive allowances being made by their employers and not having to pay for childcare, and now expect that to be the norm. It was never meant to be the norm, it was a crisis situation in a pandemic. People shriek about backwards dinosaurs if their manager expects anything more than total freedom over when they waft in and out, it’s just embarrassing.

There is literally no law that says an employer has to be flexible
They can say the hours we work here are 8-6 and an hour for lunch and if that doesn't work for you they have no legal obligation to change that to suit you
Hth

Flexibility is priceless unless the money is enough for you to buy flexibility, i.e. pay someone else to do it. My company would have no problem with this, offer huge flexibility but will expect you to be flexible with late calls, busy times etc in return. I would be worried about a company that couldn't even see their way to accommodate 40 mins in a day considering it could easily be managed with earlier and later start times, break times etc.

The point is don't ask this at interview stage - they're interviewing several other people and of it comes down to a choice this will go against you
Ask this when they offer you the job - you already know they want you and you Can negotiate terms
I would be put off hiring someone if they asked about this complicated arrangement at an interview before we've even made an offer

This basically. It tells you a lot about their attitude to work life balance.

No everyone’s job can be done in a vacuum. Other people in the business or outside the business probably need to be able to contact OP which they can’t do if he is working a good chunk of his working day outside normal office hours.

Yeah massive red flag from the company and I’d not be going to work there tbh ! They sound very old school and I’d say that’s only the beginning of them being inflexible

I bet if they’d refuse to let you go collect a sick child from school to in an emergency

you’ll find something else

my husband and I do similar to what you are suggesting ! He starts late and works a bit late 2 days a week to do nursery drop off!

I do 8-4 3 days so I can get away for nursery pick up

i work 6-8am once a week so I can get some stuff done before I do drop off and then I work 9-2 when I get home and I can collect my daughter and have some time with her!

I don’t think it’s that unusual

Yes take that as a massive red flag. They'll be the type of company to reject your holiday leave two weeks beforehand because they 'need' you. You're nuts if you take it honestly, they'll be a nightmare to work for.

Ridiculous to say it's a red flag and insinuate all sorts of future issues ! As PP said the pandemic made everyone assume they could work from home forever and come and go as they please and that's just not a reality in many workplaces
Doesn't mean they're not a good place to work but probably means you should look elsewhere

"Companies need to start trusting their workers, and realizing that work can be done flexibly when it suits the employee - as long as you're getting the job done and you're doing a good job, they shouldn't care. It's companies like this which make it difficult for women to have families."
As someone who runs her own company I have had people working from home who have taken the opportunity to go out for a day, shopping and generally do little etc
If a person has kids at home there is no way they can possibly be fully focused on the job.

If i need someone to do something I often need an answer in a couple of hours not at 8 pm when it suits them and i am with my family.
I have kids.
I did not expect the company I worked for then to care about my kids - they are not the companies responsibility.

Nah, the belief that everyone needs to be in the office for the sort of role OP is talking about is a red flag, particularly in a sector that appears to have been ahead of the game in offering wfh pre pandemic. Very few people never want any flexibility at all, even those who do genuinely prefer to be fully office based.

I only work for flexible companies. Flexible companies are more inclusive. I could earn a lot more but choose flexibility. Times have moved on. Life has moved on. Those organisations still stuck on antiquated working practises just because it was what was done before will not have a good culture. Depending on your sector there are plenty of flexible companies out there.

Don't compromise on what you want if you do not have to.

Yes but we're not talking about wfh it's asking for exceptions before even being hired
If a long term trusted employee asked for this then I would absolutely think it should be considered but I don't believe not allowing it from the offset is a red flag from a company
Employers also have to trust that work is being done and people aren't taking the piss
I think that is earned

Employers also have to trust that work is being done and people aren't taking the piss

Employers should treat people professionally and as mature adults. When going for a role, I see what they can offer me too. If I don't like the offer I wouldn't take it unless I needed to.

For someone to suggest 'you're not committed enough' when they barely know you and all you've done is made a simple request, not an order, is ridiculous. If you think that's normal, you really shouldn't ever be a manager.

That kind of attitude is the attitude of a bad company, who will likely suggest you're not committed for daring to be sick. I actually got told by one such company that they would have given me a disciplinary for having a broken leg if I hadn't kept working in the office. I couldn't drive! I couldn't get there. But I could work from home, that wasn't good enough though.

If you think that's right, you're the one who needs a reality check.

Just an update before I leave the thread. I have spoken to the manager this morning explaining my reasons for declining the job. She was quite abrupt and cut the conversation short. I am disappointed tbh but there's a silver lining in every cloud.

I think I will stick with my current role which is working fine for us as a family. Ill keep an eye out for other jobs though.

My dp will just have to get through the next 9 months and then things will be much easier for her.

We are talking about wfh. In the OP it says that the manager expects everyone to be in the office and available all the time, ie no wfh. Which actually, given what OP has said about her other roles in the sector, would mean it's this employer who is the exception. The majority of people talking about red flags in the thread have been referring to this.

Flexible meaning what though ? And you mention working for multiple companies? Does trust with tenure count for nothing ?
The reality is most people will take the piss so as an employer you have to find a balance
Before covid almost no one worked from home and now many people don't want to return to the office
Companies need to take that into account but also must consider productivity and culture in long term planning
My example as a business owner is my head of sales selling up and moving hours away and not wanting to commute now the office is open again but the core of his role is managing sales people a lot of which traditionally is done face to face - so where does that leave me when I have a team without a leader

YANBU, OP.

One of the reasons I've stayed with my current employer is because they have an incredibly flexible approach to issues like this. I could do the same job in the public sector and get 25% more money, but I really value the way they treat staff.

And it cuts both ways, too. I'm p/t now, but am always ok about changing my hours to accommodate training, meetings etc if I possibly can, as are my colleagues, most of whom are also p/t.

I did not expect the company I worked for then to care about my kids - they are not the companies responsibility.

The company I work for does care about my kids, dogs and grandparents. It's a massively successful company with amazing employee retention. And yes we can take 20 min to pick up kids if needed.
Yes there are plenty of jobs where you have to have your backside on the seat during your contracted hours, but most office jobs do allow for flexibility.