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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To turn down a job because they refused flexible working even though it was higher paid.

215 replies

SummerFlops · 14/09/2022 18:37

I have been offered a job which is more money. Not massively loads. It's in my home town so no travel costs. So taking into account that and the slightly higher pay, I would be better off by £190 per month.

I asked if I could work flexibly in the mornings and afternoons to do a school run for one academic year so till July 2023. I would make the time up by working earlier from home and later in the evening. School run takes 20 mins max there and back so 40 mins of the day total.

The reason why I asked was so that I could help out my partner who has to do 2 school runs at different schools so pretty hectic. No after school club possible. This is just for this academic year and then she will be fine as eldest will be in secondary and can make own way.

The manager refused saying that that isn't what they do and there's an expectation that everyone needs to be in the office and available at any time if anything comes up. Like what i have no idea - I am not an ER doctor or anything. She also insinuated that I wasn't committed to the job by asking this.

Looks like they don't have a flexible working culture and I feel like turning the offer down but at the same time the extra money would be nice too!

YABU - of course they don't have to accept your request and you're being silly for expecting it.

YANBU - they don't seem like a forward thinking organisation and they'll be other stuff stuck in the dark ages. Run for the hills.

OP posts:
IScreamAtMichaelangelos · 14/09/2022 22:56

Skimmed the thread but wanted to say my company would have no issue with this as long as all work got done by its deadline. It wouldn't be a formalised arrangement, more of a need to know basis, but would certainly not be a problem.

anon666 · 14/09/2022 23:02

I guess they know best what would fit with the job and their culture.

I've been in a lot of jobs where this would be an issue, where you need to be full on. Other jobs could have accommodated it.

Some office jobs are in reality 10 hour days, and so docking 40 minutes off the standard 7.5 hours would be seen as taking the piss.

Yes things are changing, but some jobs are changing more than others. I think you were right to stay in your current job if the flexibility is important.

Most jobs are still stipulated responsibilities amd hours, especially if face to face. It's one thing for a valued member of the team who you trust and can see pulls their weight. It's a whole other when you get someone who thinks the whole world revolves around them, has no flex and isn't a team player.

Sometimes if you ask this stuff at the wrong moment as a new team member, it comes across badly.

Rosewaterblossom · 14/09/2022 23:06

anon666 · 14/09/2022 23:02

I guess they know best what would fit with the job and their culture.

I've been in a lot of jobs where this would be an issue, where you need to be full on. Other jobs could have accommodated it.

Some office jobs are in reality 10 hour days, and so docking 40 minutes off the standard 7.5 hours would be seen as taking the piss.

Yes things are changing, but some jobs are changing more than others. I think you were right to stay in your current job if the flexibility is important.

Most jobs are still stipulated responsibilities amd hours, especially if face to face. It's one thing for a valued member of the team who you trust and can see pulls their weight. It's a whole other when you get someone who thinks the whole world revolves around them, has no flex and isn't a team player.

Sometimes if you ask this stuff at the wrong moment as a new team member, it comes across badly.

Covid forced alot of companies to have no choice but to change the way people do their jobs which in effect changed their culture. Suddenly companies who were clunky and rigid before realised "oh yes" we can adapt and change and be flexible!

Icamebyfilm · 14/09/2022 23:08

SummerFlops · 14/09/2022 18:48

Really? That's interesting. I would be in the office all the time but would leave to do the school run. It literally would be a 20min trip. Obviously if there were meetings etc that would take priority. I'm surprised that organisations aren't more open to flexibility after the pandemic.

No because by the time you let everyone be flexiable than there is no room for meetings because everyone is away doing their own thing.

jackstini · 14/09/2022 23:14

If it's only 20 mins you need, can you take it as lunch break?

It's ok to ask, but it's quite a big ask up front before they really know you

Tuilpmouse · 14/09/2022 23:16

I wouldn't take it.... Not just because of your request, but it is likely that they will be inflexible about loads of other stuff to...

If you go, be ready for leave dates to be more tightly controlled than they need to be giving you logistical headaches.

Them taking a very dim view of you needing time when your child is I'll.

Not being able to go to special assemblies or sports days etc.

Tuilpmouse · 14/09/2022 23:19

jackstini · 14/09/2022 23:14

If it's only 20 mins you need, can you take it as lunch break?

It's ok to ask, but it's quite a big ask up front before they really know you

Not really... You don't want to take a job, and only realise they're inflexible a week or so in, by which time it's too late, and you have a nightmare sorting school pick ups, and potentially paying for after school clubs that eat up your additional earnings!

Icamebyfilm · 14/09/2022 23:21

It’s not 40 mins.

its an hour.

itsjustnotok · 14/09/2022 23:26

I guess it depends on the role. Ask by all means but some mumsnetters seem to think all jobs should be flexible and if they aren’t, are likened to dinosaurs. Not all jobs have the capacity to offer flexi work to everyone. I used to work in retail and there was a lady who requested late starts and early finishes, she threatened to sue and it all got quite nasty. The company gave her what she wanted and it resulted in everyone else having to go short staffed at opening and closing. We ended up losing staff because they got fed up of it. I know childcare is bloody hard but sometimes it feels like requests should be given regardless of the impact it has on everyone else, including the business.

Summerandsimmer · 14/09/2022 23:28

YANBU. I moved jobs recently because of the poor culture in my previous company being very inflexible and wanted "bums on seats" everyday.

I now work for a flexible company with a much better culture, and I can WFH and do school runs.

In return for the flexibility, I actually work more (my choice) than my 9-5 hours and willingly put in longer hours to get things done, since trust and goodwill is a two-way street.

Don't settle for a company that already questions your commitment without even working with you. It's their loss.

Anothernamechangeplease · 14/09/2022 23:37

It would work for some jobs and not for others. None of us can possibly say whether it's indicative of an inflexible working culture because we don't know what their reasons were for refusing the request.

Overandunderit · 14/09/2022 23:52

In this situation, the company know what their business needs are more than you and have made them clear to you. You don't know whether what you're proposing is reasonable (what's reasonable to you is irrelevant). They may have turned down similar requests so wish to maintain consistency.

Find something else if you need that kind of flexibility, many places offer it.

Feetache · 15/09/2022 00:00

Once you've picked up the child what will you do with them ?

Confusion101 · 15/09/2022 00:32

When I read your OP I could see where u were coming from and upon reading this:
I would work an hour at home. Do school run. Go to office. Do school run and then work from home after
I've changed my mind. I think that is a lot to ask of an employer who doesn't know you. The promise of working an hour in the morning before the school run would raise a few red flags like would you actually be working, or would you be getting your family ready. You would only be settling into a task and you would have to run to school. Same in the evening. All the time setting up and closing up laptop... Obviously you know you would work but just seeing it from the view of the employer I think it is an unreasonable request.

Confusion101 · 15/09/2022 00:34

And just to add, you keep saying it's only temporary but will go on until July 2023.. Its going to last the guts of a year. Not exactly what I would call temporary! 🙈

Discovereads · 15/09/2022 00:35

CantFindTheBeat · 14/09/2022 22:43

@Discovereads

And this employer, who's said no to any flexible working, is going to do that, are they?

Did you miss my first sentence which said I’d probably decline the job? And that “if I felt naughty” I’d swap to an unpaid parental leave request. It’s more to show them how unreasonable they are being before declining than with any real expectation of a “oh gosh yes how silly of us to treat you like a machine” response.

trailrunner85 · 15/09/2022 05:52

I would work an hour at home. Do school run. Go to office. Do school run and then work from home after

This would be fine as an irregular thing if one of my team asked for it, but not for it to become their regular working pattern. Depending on the timing of the pick ups and drop offs, you're potentially putting yourself out of three usual meeting slots (9-10, 2-3pm, 3-4pm). And then when you take lunchtimes into account too, it suddenly becomes very difficult to schedule to meet with the OP at all..

Original poster
SummerFlops · 15/09/2022 06:09

trailrunner85 · 15/09/2022 05:52

I would work an hour at home. Do school run. Go to office. Do school run and then work from home after

This would be fine as an irregular thing if one of my team asked for it, but not for it to become their regular working pattern. Depending on the timing of the pick ups and drop offs, you're potentially putting yourself out of three usual meeting slots (9-10, 2-3pm, 3-4pm). And then when you take lunchtimes into account too, it suddenly becomes very difficult to schedule to meet with the OP at all..

. I've already said that if meeting times clash during those times my dp can sort it. Really not a problem at all. I am flexible.

OP posts:
Original poster
SummerFlops · 15/09/2022 06:14

Icamebyfilm · 14/09/2022 23:08

No because by the time you let everyone be flexiable than there is no room for meetings because everyone is away doing their own thing.

Show quote history

That's right. Tech companies haven't been able to schedule meetings in years - their flexibility is ruining everything.

OP posts:
Andromachehadabadday · 15/09/2022 06:17

I work in what’s considered part of the construction industry. We start at 8am so you starting at 9.15 would be an issue in some roles. But the afternoon would be fine.

we try and work with people as much as we can. But not every role is suitable for this.

Their attitude that it shows you have no commitment to the job, suggests it’s not a great place to work.

bumbledeedum · 15/09/2022 06:19

Does the company have a general home working culture?

Tbh I've always been a pretty relaxed manager but I would raise an eyebrow at Thai request (depending on the overall company culture but it sounds like your request is quite different to theirs).

You're not asking for just flexibility to do the school run, you're asking for a reasonable chunk of time as home working.

Not saying either position is right or wrong, but it does sound like your expectations and attitudes are fundamentally incompatible and it certainly doesn't seem worth the stress for an extra £190pm.

Tohaveandtohold · 15/09/2022 06:25

I don’t see what’s wrong in what you asked, you planned to come back and work the hours after doing the drop off and pick up.
I’ll take that as a hint that it’s not a good place to work for and will definitely continue looking for another job for more pay and better conditions.

People do this a lot at my place of work, we only go to the office one day a week but just that one day, many people take their lunch at 2:30 so they leave then and do school pick up and then log in at home for the rest of the afternoon, it’s not frowned on and for some of us whose children go to after school club who stay at the office till closing, we don’t see an issue with it.

1AngelicFruitCake · 15/09/2022 06:26

Say they grant it for you, what happens to those people that actually pay for wraparound care (that most of us have to do)? They should be granted flexible working. But how does that work if you’re all in/out at different times?

If you won’t be gone for long, why didn’t you offer to come back to work after you’ve picked up?

ittakes2 · 15/09/2022 06:29

You could for the first xtra money pay someone to do the school run for the next year and then after that you would get the benefit.
but I would just ask your current employer to match the pay rise or meet half way. A manager suggesting I was uncommitted would ring alarm bells for me

Original poster
SummerFlops · 15/09/2022 06:37

bumbledeedum · 15/09/2022 06:19

Does the company have a general home working culture?

Tbh I've always been a pretty relaxed manager but I would raise an eyebrow at Thai request (depending on the overall company culture but it sounds like your request is quite different to theirs).

You're not asking for just flexibility to do the school run, you're asking for a reasonable chunk of time as home working.

Not saying either position is right or wrong, but it does sound like your expectations and attitudes are fundamentally incompatible and it certainly doesn't seem worth the stress for an extra £190pm.

I have no idea if they have a WFH / flexible culture but naively thought they would as I have worked in the same type of organisation for over 15 years and I have always had at least a day WFH. It's been the norm for me. Some have been much more flexible than others but the least was one day from home. I was surprised to have found out that there was an expectation to be in the office at all times.

Some have been at the top of their game. Unfortunately this organisation is actually at the bottom of the heap and are struggling. They don't have a very good reputation in their field either.

I am wondering if they have lost good talent ( not talking about myself!) for not offering hybrid / WFH / flexible working. I can't be the only one that's turned a job down here for this reason. It's honestly a shame as I think I could have brought some good experience to the role and already had a few ideas that I wanted to propose which have worked really well in similar work I've done.

OP posts: