To turn down a job because they refused flexible working even though it was higher paid.

[SummerFlops]

I have been offered a job which is more money. Not massively loads. It's in my home town so no travel costs. So taking into account that and the slightly higher pay, I would be better off by £190 per month.

I asked if I could work flexibly in the mornings and afternoons to do a school run for one academic year so till July 2023. I would make the time up by working earlier from home and later in the evening. School run takes 20 mins max there and back so 40 mins of the day total.

The reason why I asked was so that I could help out my partner who has to do 2 school runs at different schools so pretty hectic. No after school club possible. This is just for this academic year and then she will be fine as eldest will be in secondary and can make own way.

The manager refused saying that that isn't what they do and there's an expectation that everyone needs to be in the office and available at any time if anything comes up. Like what i have no idea - I am not an ER doctor or anything. She also insinuated that I wasn't committed to the job by asking this.

Looks like they don't have a flexible working culture and I feel like turning the offer down but at the same time the extra money would be nice too!

YABU - of course they don't have to accept your request and you're being silly for expecting it.

YANBU - they don't seem like a forward thinking organisation and they'll be other stuff stuck in the dark ages. Run for the hills.

YANBU, it’s pretty flexible at my company,, to the extent that some put drop-offs / pick-ups in their Outlook for all to see.

Would you actually work an hour earlier though? Not being doubtful, just noy something I could do.

It would be 9m - take into account the school holidays and that would be more like 7.5 months! Absolutely temporary!

Yes I actually do this in my current role. Even on the days I am in the office. My dp sorts the kids out.

Then it’s a real shame that the flex isn’t there.

Reasonable but I think to ask you any favours like this is a bit like gold dust. People have worked for a company for years and get declined for things like this or compressed hours.

It's a bit shit but maybe something better will come along! Good that you asked though you never know!

So did you pursue a role with such a terrible company who is at the ‘bottom of the heap’? Sounds like sour grapes to me. You’re coming across as immature and obtuse, anyone who politely points out the employer’s position is sneered at and called a ‘dinosaur’. Cringe! You’re really not coming across well. Clearly you’re not happy with the company’s response to what you’ve asked for so just turn down the role. Why come on a forum inviting opinions if you’re so adamant you’re right and anyone else is wrong?

Could you book your lunch break everyday for that time? I think the line about not being committed demonstrates that they think they own you a bit. I would stick to what you have for another year. I'm in the same boat where I have a flexible role, but stuck in a job I don't like and the pay is crap because I can't be confident that other employers will be flexible, and going to an inflexible employer would cost me any gains I make anyway.

YANBU

I think some people on this thread don't realise that flexibility works both ways.

Most days you can have your arrangement of picking up the kids, if you don't have other commitments.

Days when you do have other commitments, you make another arrangement.

Flexibility from both the employer and employee, to accommodate each other's needs as much as possible. It's actually basic respect.

Some people just don't seem able to cope with any out of the box thinking. I would run for the hills with a manager like that tbh.

A lot of parents would love the opportunity to drop and collect their kids. If I was in a company working long term, and suddenly this new employee starts and is granted an hour working from home in the morning, mid morning - afternoon in the office, and the rest of the evening working from home I'd be thinking that sounds like something I'd like. Then all of a sudden staff are requesting this set up or others and time for meetings is greatly reduced. As others have continuously pointed out, this would work for some companies but not all and the place obviously has their reason as to why they want everyone in the office! Not every job every is going to be able to bow to your needs, and you to theirs. Decline, stay where you are and leave it at that.

I don’t even understand how this is an issue to be honest.

Their hours of work don’t suit you and they aren’t willing to give the flexibility you want.

They are at the bottom of their industry. Not a great a company.

Just like any job offer that doesn’t meet your needs, you reject it and move on.

They don’t have to give you what you want and they don’t want you enough to try and give you it. You don’t have to work for them, because it doesn’t suit your life.

I work for a company that I turned down 3 times in 2 years because it didn’t suit me at the time. They finally created a role that did. And here I am.

Look for another job. You will find a better one with more flexible employers

At my work we have be trying to fill an analyst roles and are advertising for the fourth time in nine months . The role has been empty the whole time. In the first two of the rounds we had fewer than 10 applications and only 1-2 were worth interviewing and none were appointable . We have an incredibly family friendly environment and very flexible working policy. Our team is great and very friendly . I am not just saying that , I honestly think in 30 years of working this is the best set of colleagues I've worked with for being friendly, open, efficient , dedicated and hard working with no difficult people at all ( and let's face it there is usually at least one in any team of 20-30 people)

. Our pay is probably at the bottom of end of average though so that doesn't help but our salaries are fairly set and hard to increase as we are a university

Filling job roles at the moment is not at all easy unless you are offering the whole package

I do this a few days/week. Have done since the pandemic. Prior to that, life was a rush, after school club, after school club pick up, fitting in activities for the DC and a rushed dinner. Now I often leave at 3, grab the kids, start work again at 3:45 for a couple of hours whilst they play/watch TV (older primary so don’t need supervision)… My job isn’t customer facing and those I work with can be online from 6:30am - 7pm so sometimes I cover one end of the day, sometimes the other, even though the organisation I work for is more 9-5. My hours actually benefit our clients and give them more flexibility. Equally, if I want to finish at 3 I can start at 6:30/7. So long as major meetings, which are always 10-2 anyway, are covered, who actually cares if the work is getting done?!

Absolutely this. Flexible working can be amazing for both employed and employee, where it's appropriate (obviously some roles just aren't compatible with it).

Eg I have flexible working, wfh most of the time and do school runs turned down an offer for a huge amount of money because they had no flexibility. In my current job I travel often to meetings all over the country rather than have a local office. I can do a 4/5 hour day when it's quiet or 14 hours when it's busy.
My hours work for my home life but because I'm flexible the other way too it's never an issue. I am very much pro flexible working and I think if more companies adopted it they'd see huge improvements in productivity and retention.

Not unreasonable, if they want you to be available at all times what happens when it’s your lunch break? Or do they not allow anyone to leave the building for lunch? They’re stuck in the dark ages, you’re better off out.

I’d have just asked to start later and work later/through lunch to make up rather than both. Though, the committee comment puts me off

My employer is flexible, we still know if we need to be working at a particular time for things like meetings.

Asking for both is the reason it wasn’t granted. It’s just asking for too much for most workplaces imo. Many workplaces need to be open during normal house for clients, suppliers etc and cutting your core office hours down to 9:30-about 2:30 for a primary school pick up is quite extreme. Sure you say you will work outside that but it’s not in the normal company hours so your input on many tasks is hugely limited.
If you shifted your work day earlier or later they probably would have been more accommodating.

Flexible working requires flexible management. Managers need to be the types who understand the work required and know whether it can be done flexibly - from home for an hour in the morning, then a little later into the evening. And how to make that an asset and get the best out of employees.

Either the interviewer knew the job could not be done that way, or they are wedded to a lazy culture of presenteeism and do not understand how to manage flexible working effectively. It sounds like the second case.

Don't take the job.

No because by the time you let everyone be flexiable than there is no room for meetings because everyone is away doing their own thing.

It's really not that hard. A meeting invite is sent, invitees either accept or decline based on availability. Flexible working means that important meetings are attended because everyone is flexible.

I think it's harder to schedule with people who are stuck in the mindset of 'must be present at all times' and endless, pointless meetings because they have calendars full of meetings and never actually get anything done. The people who understand and implement flexible working properly are available for meetings and have the output because they are managing their time.

But really, if you look at your meetings, is everyone single one of them essential? Because mine certainly aren't, the best thing I ever did was start turning down things that weren't needed.

Yep, this. All you had to do was turn down the role because it didn’t suit you. Instead you’ve thrown a strop about how the company, and anyone who doesn’t think a company’s schedule should work around you, is a ‘dinosaur’, before dismissing the company as ‘the bottom of the pile’. It just makes you sound bitter; as if you think they would have been incredibly lucky to have you, and how dare they want anything from you rather than being flexible according to your needs!

The truth is, if you were such a great potential team member, you wouldn’t need to apply to ‘bottom of the pile’ companies for £190 a month more than you’re getting now. Why not apply to one of these endlessly flexible ‘tech companies’ you keep talking about?

The truth is, if you were such a great potential team member, you wouldn’t need to apply to ‘bottom of the pile’ companies for £190 a month more than you’re getting now. Why not apply to one of these endlessly flexible ‘tech companies’ you keep talking about?

🤣

I have turned down many a role when they won't allow flexibility. One role I asked to start at 8:30 and stay until whenever they needed me to included the same contractual hours plus over time except I needed to start at 9:30. Was a straight out no. If it doesn't work it doesn't work and small amounts of extra money won't enable to make the changes required to make it work imo.

How would you manage on the days there were meetings? You’ve already said that they would take priority.

Flexibility is great when the role allows it. Covid and wfh means everyone got used to flexibility that it went too far where people think they can choose their own hours and the employer disagreeing is an employer being difficult. I have a colleague who regularly leaves at 4.45pm because he needs to pick up his dog from the dog sitter. The employer is unhappy but he’s using parents who need to leave at a similar time for childcare reasons as the basis for his behaviour and arguing it’s unfair otherwise. Usually, you give a person an inch, and others start to take a mile. Allowing flexibility is a tough one for managers and employers.