To not (yet) understand the purpose of pronouns in emails?

[Bobby80]

I'm aware this is a sensitive topic for some but I'm looking for some education on this. I didn't want to post in the gender issues boards as I thought I might come across as very ignorant and maybe I am! I also wanted a broad 'audience'.

Pronouns in emails- what's the purpose? Should I have my pronouns in my work email signature? We have no guidance on it at work so some people do and some don't. I don't feel the need personally to have a pronoun in mine but wouldn't want to offend others. Is the purpose of it for the send ie me or for the receiver or both? Is it really meaningful or a box ticking exercise?

Pointless load of bolllock tbh

Control and self centred narcissism.

Compelled speech. It starts with this and ends with pretending it's ok for any bloke to identify as a woman at any time of their choosing.

You might as well have posted on the Feminism boards because you're going to get the same people telling you it's a load of bollocks and virtue-signalling.

It can be helpful if you have a first name that is ambiguous (eg Sam) or unusual and people won't know if you're a man or woman.

It signals your allegiance to the ideology of gender identity.
Please feel free to come over to the feminist boards @Bobby80 we are actually friendlier than people say

Sone people , eg with a unisex name or working with different cultures , get upset if the wrong sex / gender is assumed

Others don't get upset at all

Others get upset if anyone thinks sex /gender generally matters or alters their behaviour according to assumes sex / gender and so would rather not disclose

I hate them...when I see them I assume that the person writing is a twat

I don't put it in my emails. I don't care about my pronouns or what the readers of my emails may assume about me.

It can be helpful if you have a first name that is ambiguous (eg Sam) or unusual and people won't know if you're a man or woman

Does it matter if you’re a man or a woman sending an email?

Those with a unisex name can do all manner of things to show their biological sex if they ever want to

The sex of the sender of an email is irrelevant in all cases.

Sam can put Samantha or Samuel. Or put their middle name (if usually used for male or female) or put Ms.Mr.Mrs.Miss or just put Sam. Who cares if Sam is male or female?

If you have a unisex name (I have irl) you have a lifetime of people making the wrong call or being nervous about what to call you. Rather than having a hissy fit about any inadvertent errors, you politely correct people and move on. Because it's NOT A BIG DEAL.

I think its self absorbed. I dont care what your pronouns are. Im not going to address you as she/her because I would say, dear bobby, please can you send me that invoice that I have repeatedly asked you for

I dont need to use your pronouns and Im not interested in them

If Im talking about you to someone else, what does it matter whether I say he or she, Im not talking to you

I also think that to refer to she/he as being gender issues is enforcing stereotypes, she and he refer to your biological sex, thats all, nothing more and nothing less.

The stated goal is to let people know your preferred gender identification, which may be different than your sex. Your gender identity may not be obvious from your name or it may differ from the common associations of your name.

i will not declare my pronouns because it draws extra attention to your sex in a world where women still face discrimination in the workplace. I believe it does a disservice to all women for people, both male and female, to draw extra attention to their sex in the workplace. The reality is that most people do not have an identity separate from the material reality of the body they must live with so pronoun declarations are in fact declarations of sex for the vast majority.

Not everyone with a sex ambiguous name actually cares
Can I speak to mr x

Yes speaking

I definitely think THIS will be the thread that changes minds and sorts the whole thing out.

The previous 294784895 didn't do it, but I feel good about this one.

We had an interesting conversation about this here in case you fancy a read OP: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4594719-i-am-embracing-virtue-signalling-pronouns-in-emails?page=37&reply=119001109

I am still at a loss - people put them in emails but we must not mention them unless it is a 'stunningly brave' man telling us to call him they/them she/her.

Best not to ask on MN there are very very few reasonable people on here as you can see.

pronouns very useful if the name is unisex - Sam or Ashley for example. Also useful if someone would prefer different pronouns to those you’d expect eg if someone is non binary or transitioning. Setting your own pronouns can also help to give a bit of support to someone who is in the process of coming out as trans.

but on mumsnet saying you don’t think pronouns are that big of a deal marks you out as a enemy to your sex or some shit. If you aren’t frothing at the mouth at the very idea you aren’t doing it right

Why do they need to know in a working situation? Are you supposed to send a different email to a man? When / if they meet, it’s going to be pretty obvious (though still hopefully irrelevant).

I don’t get it either. Worse is when the presenter of a webinar starts of with ‘Hi, I’m John, He/Him pronouns’ 🤦‍♀️ I cringe for them and just can’t take them seriously.

I automatically dislike anyone with pronouns in their email / bio. I feel real disappointment when women do it tbh. It may seem like a small thing but it’s not, it’s part of a much bigger and damaging to women picture.

Ask yourself why anyone would actually need to know what your gender pronouns are in a work context. Because I can't see any reason at all.

When replying to emails, they address you by name because they know what it is, so pronouns are not needed. If they phone the office and ask to speak to you, then they ask for you by name. At what point do they need to know your gender? They don't. If you're not in the office, then they can ask "When would it be best to call again?" or "When will they be back?" and in a letter or email (if they want to be more formal) then they can address it to "Dear Sir/Madam" which covers all eventualities.

Pronouns tell other people you worship at the church of gender. Unless your sex or gender identity are relevant to your job then it's about as necessary as telling someone you encounter through work what your religion is. You will obviously hurt the feelings of non binary brethren but if your pronouns can change depending on what day of the week it is then who cares. None of us need this kind of tyrannical shit at work, we're adults and should be capable of treating colleagues with respect.

The odd thing is that if someone is replying to my email, they don't need my pronouns. They would say hi PurpleA not hi she/her. So to put them in my email seems pointless.

I roll my eyes when I see the pronoun nonsense and I immediately judge them I'm afraid (naive/stupid/indoctrinated...take your pick)

They are there as a signal that you are:

Uber woke and tolerant and down with the kids
Bearded bloke who enjoys annoying women
Speshul with an identity that bears no resemblance to reality but you will accuse everyone of bullying if they don't use your preference
Frightened of the blue hair in HR and keen to score Stonewall points

The problem is, as is well known, women are treat disproportionately badly in business, so often it's better not to be too precise. It signals that you buy into a regressive ideology which says being a woman is a felling, not a physical state, and actually, can put pressure of those questioning their own 'identity' to say so more quickly than they would like.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/