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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not (yet) understand the purpose of pronouns in emails?

217 replies

Bobby80 · 14/09/2022 17:31

I'm aware this is a sensitive topic for some but I'm looking for some education on this. I didn't want to post in the gender issues boards as I thought I might come across as very ignorant and maybe I am! I also wanted a broad 'audience'.

Pronouns in emails- what's the purpose? Should I have my pronouns in my work email signature? We have no guidance on it at work so some people do and some don't. I don't feel the need personally to have a pronoun in mine but wouldn't want to offend others. Is the purpose of it for the send ie me or for the receiver or both? Is it really meaningful or a box ticking exercise?

OP posts:
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 14/09/2022 20:17

IncognitoIsMyFavouriteWord · 14/09/2022 19:29

I do it so those that want/need to can. I don't see why anyone has a problem with what another person puts on their email signature. But clearly, there are those that have issues that no one else can figure out.

You don't have to figure it out. You can just read the multiple threads explaining it.

PenYGore · 14/09/2022 20:18

pronouns very useful if the name is unisex - Sam or Ashley for example

Why is it useful if you're emailing someone? Why does it matter whether they are male or female in this instance?

Lolacat1234 · 14/09/2022 20:22

The idea behind it is that if everyone does it, trans people who feel the need to declare their pronouns, will feel more comfortable to do so.

Notjusta · 14/09/2022 20:22

Sorry haven't RTFT but wanted to share that today I received an email from someone who had put his pronoun 'declaration' in rainbow colours - each word was a different colour. A real life 'professional' person and made their email look like something out of primary school!? Also their name was unambiguously male so it was completely unnecessary.

bellac11 · 14/09/2022 20:25

Why do they feel the need?

bellac11 · 14/09/2022 20:26

And why is it that everyone else has to do something to make someone else feel comfortable about something 'they feel the need to do'

Its not my role to make someone feel comfortable for something they feel the need to do, how controlling is that?

FrankTheThunderbird · 14/09/2022 20:28

I think if you feel the need to declare your pronouns because you are trans/NB/ have a unisex name, then go ahead.

If you feel you want to share your pronouns to support (whatever that means) the people listed above, then go ahead.

If you don't want/ feel you need to, then don't.

Add long as no one is being forced to share theirs. I mean, imagine you've got a trans/NB colleague who isn't out yet. By forcing them to share pronouns they've either got to 'out' themselves, or misgender themselves. Neither of which is very "kind" is it.

itsgettingweird · 14/09/2022 20:28

bellac11 · 14/09/2022 20:25

Why do they feel the need?

That's the bit i don't don't understand.

Say - for example - a trans male is Joshua. Why would they need to state (Mr).

Or are they using their biological sex Christian name given at birth - for example - Charlotte - and then using (Mr/he)?

And more to the point does it matter? No one has ever use she/her to me in an email because they are addressing me as the first person.

And if they assume I'm male because of my unisex name (I'm female) - does it matter? It has no relevance in the slightest on the email content and that's the only reason I'm communicating with them!

GinUnicorn · 14/09/2022 20:33

I hate putting pronouns.
i am female and suffer sex discrimination as it is. Virtual signalling really isn’t going to change that.

Siameasy · 14/09/2022 20:42

Attention seeking
I have a unisex name and there’s never been any issue. A few times people thought I was a he. I told them I wasn’t and nothing happened-we just carried on with our days.

DadOnIce · 14/09/2022 20:43

What did all the Sams, Alexes, Chrises, Ashleys, etc. do during the 25-year period when email was commonplace but magic pronouning hadn't yet been invented? What is stopping them from just doing the same now?... Was it even actually a problem they made people aware of? I used to work with an Alex, and I never once heard her bemoaning the fact that people assumed from her name that she was a bloke.

itsgettingweird · 14/09/2022 20:52

Siameasy · 14/09/2022 20:42

Attention seeking
I have a unisex name and there’s never been any issue. A few times people thought I was a he. I told them I wasn’t and nothing happened-we just carried on with our days.

Same here!

It's surprisingly useful when cold callers ring for Mr weird. I tell the truth - there's no one here by that name WinkGrin

DdraigGoch · 14/09/2022 20:58

yetanotherusernameAgain · 14/09/2022 17:38

You might as well have posted on the Feminism boards because you're going to get the same people telling you it's a load of bollocks and virtue-signalling.

It can be helpful if you have a first name that is ambiguous (eg Sam) or unusual and people won't know if you're a man or woman.

Provided of course that you (Sam/Alex etc.) actually care about people knowing whether you're a man or a woman. Leaving things ambiguous could work to your advantage, given how women are discriminated against:

www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/man-swaps-email-signatures-with-female-colleague-and-is-disheartened-by-way-he-is-treated/R7G4UZBFAKNHBJECY32OAA5ACA/

Somewhereoverthepacific · 14/09/2022 21:02

I find pronouns in emails useful sometimes because I work as a minority nationality. Often people I work remotely with have names that are obviously male/female to people from their country but not to me. About once every two months I'm writing an email where I want to use a pronoun and if they have their pronouns up it's quicker than me googling. It doesn't matter if I get it wrong but that (or they, which also makes it clear I don't know) would be that tiny bit jarring to the reader. I similarly get assumed male all the time even though my name is obviously female to anytime from the UK. I don't personally care but I do notice and it distracts me slightly from what is being said.

That said, this of course isn't why pronouns are included. I won't include my own because I don't want to call myself out as female. I've also heard it suggested that extensive use of pronouns potentially puts trans people in a position when they have to either announce themselves at work or actively hide.

The real issue for me isn't one or two people doing it. It's the incremental effect. Some workplaces have gotten to the point that not having your pronouns in your email is a statement because nearly everyone does. It's that incremental effect where the balancing act comes in - some women don't want to declare because of sexism, some trans people (maybe not many?) don't want to declare because they don't want to have the discussion at work (imagine if you were under pressure to disclose your sexuality in an email footer), and some people don't want to declare because of gender critical beliefs, but don't want to out themselves at work. The question is whether the benefit to some trans people is worth the detriment to others.

AloysiusBear · 14/09/2022 21:04

I personally think it's pointless. I don't need to know your sex or your gender in a professional capacity. I'd rather people state relevant qualifications.

If other people want to state theirs then whatever. However I will not be stating mine. My sex &/or gender are irrelevant to my work. If meeting me face to face I look very obviously female but wouldn't be remotely bothered if people got me mixed up.

CecilyP · 14/09/2022 21:05

Should I have my pronouns in my work email signature?

Only if you’d be mortally offended if someone refers to you as he when you are a she, or vice versa!

DdraigGoch · 14/09/2022 21:06

It costs me nothing to tell people I use the pronouns she/her. A group who are subject to discrimination say it helps them. So I do it.
And a different group, who are far more frequently subject to discrimination say that it is harmful. Yet you do it.

Mind you, quite a few people in the first group you mention don't actually use them anyway.

CecilyP · 14/09/2022 21:09

Provided of course that you (Sam/Alex etc.) actually care about people knowing whether you're a man or a woman. Leaving things ambiguous could work to your advantage, given how women are discriminated against:

I have this with my signature, though my email address is my full name. Hasn’t conferred any advantage, just the occasional, ‘I thought you were a man!’

thecatsthecats · 14/09/2022 21:10

Pronouns are only used when you're talking about someone behind their back.

If I'm going to control what people are allowed to say about me behind my back, then pronouns is not where I'd start.

Atmywitsend29 · 14/09/2022 21:11

I think it's utterly pointless and bred from compelled speech, much the same as certain nurses in certain hospitals having to have their pronouns on their name badges 😑
There are people at work who put their pronouns in their email signature. I roll my eyes every time.

It can be useful when the person has a name that could be male or female, however I don't see why they don't just use their title?

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 14/09/2022 21:18

Its helpful if you have a unisex name so men know to treat you worse
www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html

And it helps males who want to invade female single sex spaces to feel all warm and cosy about it.

If neither of those things are high priorities for you, then probably leave them off.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 14/09/2022 21:26

The idea is that you’re showing people who might otherwise be worried to declare their gender preference that it is completely normal

Why would anyone need to declare their preference to a particular set of sex role stereotypes?

Only people who get upset at being correctly sexed need to declare their pronouns.

VestofAbsurdity · 14/09/2022 21:34

I'm not trans, so my role is to listen to trans people in respect of their experiences.

Ah the submissive female socialisation in full throttle.

bellac11 · 14/09/2022 21:42

Whatsnewpussyhat · 14/09/2022 21:26

The idea is that you’re showing people who might otherwise be worried to declare their gender preference that it is completely normal

Why would anyone need to declare their preference to a particular set of sex role stereotypes?

Only people who get upset at being correctly sexed need to declare their pronouns.

Absolutely, it completely reinforces 'Im a man', call me he - look how masculine and trousered I am
or

'Im a girlie', call me she - look at my lipsticks and skirts

See Eddie Izzard for more information

VestofAbsurdity · 14/09/2022 21:49

bellac11 · 14/09/2022 20:26

And why is it that everyone else has to do something to make someone else feel comfortable about something 'they feel the need to do'

Its not my role to make someone feel comfortable for something they feel the need to do, how controlling is that?

Agree. However according to one poster that is their role with the implication it should be every other woman's role too - aim high eh?