To not (yet) understand the purpose of pronouns in emails?

[Bobby80]

I'm aware this is a sensitive topic for some but I'm looking for some education on this. I didn't want to post in the gender issues boards as I thought I might come across as very ignorant and maybe I am! I also wanted a broad 'audience'.

Pronouns in emails- what's the purpose? Should I have my pronouns in my work email signature? We have no guidance on it at work so some people do and some don't. I don't feel the need personally to have a pronoun in mine but wouldn't want to offend others. Is the purpose of it for the send ie me or for the receiver or both? Is it really meaningful or a box ticking exercise?

[AlisonDonut]

@yetanotherusernameAgain

You might as well have posted on the Feminism boards because you're going to get the same people telling you it's a load of bollocks and virtue-signalling.

It can be helpful if you have a first name that is ambiguous (eg Sam) or unusual and people won't know if you're a man or woman.

We aren't locked in a room, we just press 'active' and read stuff just like anyone else.

But it is still controlling narcissism.

[StillWeRise]

Interestingly, people have been sending each other emails for several decades without 'stating their pronouns' and I bet the worst that happened was occasional slight amused embarrassment. Somehow we all survived.
This tells me that it IS virtue signalling nonsense and not remotely necessary.
My pronouns are sex based, like my oppression.

[Porcupineintherough]

@Qwerkie

Best not to ask on MN there are very very few reasonable people on here as you can see.

pronouns very useful if the name is unisex - Sam or Ashley for example. Also useful if someone would prefer different pronouns to those you’d expect eg if someone is non binary or transitioning. Setting your own pronouns can also help to give a bit of support to someone who is in the process of coming out as trans.

but on mumsnet saying you don’t think pronouns are that big of a deal marks you out as a enemy to your sex or some shit. If you aren’t frothing at the mouth at the very idea you aren’t doing it right

Surely if I'm emailing Ashley I start the email "Dear Ashley" and use the pronoun "your"? I have a unisex name and I'd find it a bit creepy and weird if the people I correspond with "needed" to know my sex. I can't think of a single, legitimate work reason that it would make a difference.

[StillWeRise]

they will need to know whether or not to mansplain to you, obvs

[ChagSameachDoreen]

It's just idiocy.

If a CV reaches me containing pronouns, I throw the application in the bin automatically. It signifies that the sender is either a bit dim, or follows a harmful ideology that perpetuates stereotypes.

[Stripsorspots]

I got a work email today from a person I've never met and pronouns she/her were in the signature.

As her name is Sandra I would have guessed, and I would have sent the report she was asking for even if she was a man.

It was so pointless.

[Stompythedinosaur]

I'm a little tiny bit suspicious that you have come to mn, where there is an anti-trans thread slating the use of pronouns in email signatures on at least a weekly basis, rather than google this - if you have a statement to make then just say it.

Many people disagree with putting pronouns on signatures, but the purpose is to normalise checking someone's preferred way to be addressed rather than assuming this based on gender presentation. The idea being that if everyone declares their pronouns it becomes easier for transgender people to express theirs.

It costs me nothing to tell people I use the pronouns she/her. A group who are subject to discrimination say it helps them. So I do it.

[BloodAndFire]

@Stompythedinosaur

I'm a little tiny bit suspicious that you have come to mn, where there is an anti-trans thread slating the use of pronouns in email signatures on at least a weekly basis, rather than google this - if you have a statement to make then just say it.

Many people disagree with putting pronouns on signatures, but the purpose is to normalise checking someone's preferred way to be addressed rather than assuming this based on gender presentation. The idea being that if everyone declares their pronouns it becomes easier for transgender people to express theirs.

It costs me nothing to tell people I use the pronouns she/her. A group who are subject to discrimination say it helps them. So I do it.

Hi @Stompythedinosaur

I'm a woman. Subject to sex discrimination. Adding my pronouns to my email signature is damaging to me. Will you stop doing it now please?

[JennyMule]

When my (former) employer implored staff to use pronouns in their email signature I asked which other of my protected characteristics they'd like me to state as presumably "J. Mule (she/her) (white British) (disabled)" would be logical. Never had a response - went to work somewhere else where the focus is on competence, not Stonewall points.

[midgetastic]

Anti pronoun isn't anti trans

It's anti sex discrimination

[justtestingagain]

@bellac11

I think its self absorbed. I dont care what your pronouns are. Im not going to address you as she/her because I would say, dear bobby, please can you send me that invoice that I have repeatedly asked you for

I dont need to use your pronouns and Im not interested in them

If Im talking about you to someone else, what does it matter whether I say he or she, Im not talking to you

I also think that to refer to she/he as being gender issues is enforcing stereotypes, she and he refer to your biological sex, thats all, nothing more and nothing less.

couldn't agree more

[Clarabe1]

I sometimes put Mrs on my work emails because without being too outing I have a name that is considered male in Southern Europe. There are only so many times I can bear being called Mr or Sir! Otherwise it’s utter attention seeking bollocks

[BaileySharp]

Pointless virtue signalling. It's showing people how you think of yourself as a trans ally I guess. It doesn't actually change anything except showing everyone how good you think you are

[FatherDougalsBlueJumper]

I work with a male Jody, a male Sasha and a female Daryl as well as numerous Sam's and Charlie's. They get round the gender neutral name confusion by including (Mr) or (Miss/Mrs) in their email signatures. This signifies whether they wish to be known as the feminine or masculine without indulging in all the contentious-ness of pronouns.

[Stompythedinosaur]

@BloodAndFire

Hi @Stompythedinosaur

I'm a woman. Subject to sex discrimination. Adding my pronouns to my email signature is damaging to me. Will you stop doing it now please?

How is me adding pronouns to my email signature harming you?

I have a lived experience of being a woman so am better positioned to have a view about whether this is harmful to women. I'm not trans, so my role is to listen to trans people in respect of their experiences.

[CurbsideProphet]

@Qwerkie out of interest, how many of your email contacts do you think are transitioning / non-binary and how often would they know you have referred to them as she / him?

Many people see my perfectly ordinary name in my email signature (eg Sarah) and yet reply to my email with the incorrect name (eg Sandra). Now that's annoying. I roll my eyes when I see pronouns in email signatures because it's a new fad and people don't want to be seen as not being part of it.

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

Gender ideology entrenched regressive stereotypes and is based on the false assumption that everyone has a gender identity. If you put pronouns in your email you will offend some people, especially those who are more modern in their thinking and therefore don't think its necessary to tie your identity to your body. Or those who think offering over 100 gender identity boxes is about 60 billion short of enough.

[FlissyPaps]

@PuppyMonkey

It can be helpful if you have a first name that is ambiguous (eg Sam) or unusual and people won't know if you're a man or woman

Does it matter if you’re a man or a woman sending an email?

Yes it does. I have a name that can have a masculine ending and a feminine ending. E.g: George/Georgia Alexander/Alexandra Daniel/Danielle Paul/Paula

My feminine name is clearly spelt in my email signature and I still get regretted to as a “he” “sir” “Daniel/Paul” multiple times a week. It’s annoying.

[FOJN]

I have a lived experience of being a woman so am better positioned to have a view about whether this is harmful to women.

How is your lived experience more valid than other women's lives experience?

I'm not trans, so my role is to listen to trans people in respect of their experiences.

Do you mean actual trans people or trans activists? One of the biggest trans YouTubers was cancelled a couple of years ago for saying that as a transwoman they would prefer people to assume their pronouns rather than them having to state them.

Women (or anyone else) refusing to put pronouns in their emails are trying to protect themselves from discrimination and asserting their boundaries. Implying that anything other than total capitulations to gender ideology is anti trans is deeply misogynistic, expect push back from women who have some self respect.

[BloodyHellKen]

OP there is no purpose other that it being a really quick way of identifying absolute tools 😂

[purpleboy]

I have a lived experience of being a woman so am better positioned to have a view about whether this is harmful to women. I'm not trans, so my role is to listen to trans people in respect of their experiences.

What about the women who tell you this can be harmful? Do their lived experience not count? Or is it just one group of "women" who you deem worth enough to listen to?

[KassandraOfSparta]

I have a friend with a name which can be either a woman or a man. She is called Lee.

Her point is that people should treat her the same whether she is a male or female, and in a work context it doesn't matter.

[Stichintimesavesstapling]

It doesn't help unisex names because presumably female or male born Sam could be non binary or trans.

[FKATondelayo]

It can be helpful if you have a first name that is ambiguous (eg Sam) or unusual and people won't know if you're a man or woman.

Actual Sam here to tell you that in the nearly 5 decades I have been on this planet, this has never been a problem. In fact, I work in an industry where people assuming I'm a male Sam is a bonus. It gets things done a lot quicker.

To the OP:
On the tube yesterday there were 2 women talking about how to pronounce a third colleague's name and apparently this colleague puts the correct pronunciation in her email sign off. Now THAT is far more useful than fucking pronouns.

I have a lived experience of being a woman so am better positioned to have a view about whether this is harmful to women. I'm not trans, so my role is to listen to trans people in respect of their experiences.

"I'm a woman so I speak on behalf of all women. Except transwomen who tell me what to think and do." Make it make sense.

[Stompythedinosaur]

@FOJN

I have a lived experience of being a woman so am better positioned to have a view about whether this is harmful to women.

How is your lived experience more valid than other women's lives experience?

I'm not trans, so my role is to listen to trans people in respect of their experiences.

Do you mean actual trans people or trans activists? One of the biggest trans YouTubers was cancelled a couple of years ago for saying that as a transwoman they would prefer people to assume their pronouns rather than them having to state them.

Women (or anyone else) refusing to put pronouns in their emails are trying to protect themselves from discrimination and asserting their boundaries. Implying that anything other than total capitulations to gender ideology is anti trans is deeply misogynistic, expect push back from women who have some self respect.

I didn't say my lived experience was more valid. I said it is a discussion that I feel I have a valid perspective on. You are just looking for a fight.

I'm aware how strongly some posters feel about issues relating to supporting transgender people. But to wildly state that any woman who sees things differently to you "lacks self-respect" is preposterous.