To not (yet) understand the purpose of pronouns in emails?

[Bobby80]

I'm aware this is a sensitive topic for some but I'm looking for some education on this. I didn't want to post in the gender issues boards as I thought I might come across as very ignorant and maybe I am! I also wanted a broad 'audience'.

Pronouns in emails- what's the purpose? Should I have my pronouns in my work email signature? We have no guidance on it at work so some people do and some don't. I don't feel the need personally to have a pronoun in mine but wouldn't want to offend others. Is the purpose of it for the send ie me or for the receiver or both? Is it really meaningful or a box ticking exercise?

If I see it in someone's email, I assume either narcissist, drone or bullied. Either way it's not a good look.

They are a lot of crap dressed up as “be kind”. Never will I adhere to this practice and I think less of people who do.

No point in them at all apart from the chance to virtue signal.

Some people at my work have their names broken down phonetically as well, I can see the use in that if it's a name that is hard to pronounce, but I don't think it's very necessary when your name is Re-Bec-Cah

In this age of 'equality' it shouldn't matter what sex or gender you are. All I want is the correct information or answer to my question. I couldn't care less whether it's a he or she . I hate all this pronoun shit.

I'm definitely not disclosing my sex in work emails. I do a lot of inter and multi agency work, interacting with people I don't know, in a field where pronoun signatures are definitely on the up, and I don't want to risk disadvantaging myself or the outcomes for the people I represent by signalling a) that I am a woman and b) that I subscribe to gender ideology.

I work in a male-dominated field with lots of MCPs who can't get their heads around the fact that a woman could answer a technical query. I get round this by not using my name and replying as A. Smith or Kind regards, Technical Support.
So I'm definitely not going to be adding my pronouns to my email signature!

I have literally just asked for further information about how me putting my pronouns in my email is harming others.

I hate the way any thread about transgender issues deteriorates into a horrible name calling slanging match. If people don't want a discussion, why start a thread?

Uncomfortable as it may make some posters, there is not only one way to be a feminist.

How does pronouns harm women ?

It has been shown that reminding females of their sex makes them underperform.?pronouns in emails reminds females of their sex

It has been shown that making people aware that a person is female causes them to downgrade how they view that person - reject from interview for example a female but not a male with the same cv. Pronouns in emails will make it easier for men to disregard the email

How many examples would be enough ?

I hate the idea of pronouns in emails. I just do not get it and hate all this wokery... gah!

I work for an organisation with (I suspect) a higher than average proportion of trans/gender fluid/gender neutral/attention seeking people among its workforce.

It is mandatory to have your pronouns in your email signature to avoid misgendering. 😏Even if your name is one that is almost invariably used by one gender only, and your gender is consistent with that. 😖And it is a disciplinary matter to misgender or deadname someone who has transitioned. A former colleague got a written warning for this heinous offence.

Having said that, I've noticed an increasing number of people who don't have their pronouns in emails, so maybe no-one's policing it. The organisation has a bit of a history of introducing "rules", and a few months later you find you're the only one still observing them and no-one else seems to give a fuck.

I was really confused with it but someone explained to me it's people showing support to tansgender people that they can identify whatever sex they want. I too thought it was say your name was Jamie you would use it to show what sex you are. I not going to put it on my signature though

It's to show that you belong to the Church of Woke.

I'm really not looking for a fight. I quoted your exact words, which were:

"I have a lived experience of being a woman so am better positioned to have a view about whether this is harmful to women."

I don't think I can be held responsible for thinking you were attempting to speak for all women.

I maintain that women with self respect will push back against misogyny. You keep making the mistake of asserting that women standing up for themselves are "anti trans", that is misogyny. I can defend women's rights without hate for anyone else but equally I will not stay silent if accomodating another group is done at the expense of women.

Ok, so me choosing to use pronouns might harm me, but how does it harm others?

Up to me if I choose to do something which might harm me (while being I formed about the culture of my work place) in order to support another vulnerable group.

I absolutely do not think women are obliged to declare their pronouns, particularly if they would be negatively effected by it.

I have an ambiguous name and that’s an extra reason to not put my pronouns. Studies have shown women are perceived worse- why should I advertise the fact?

’I maintain that women with self respect will push back against misogyny’

That’s nice. Meanwhile, in the real world,

’I work in a male-dominated field with lots of MCPs who can't get their heads around the fact that a woman could answer a technical query. I get round this by not using my name and replying as A. Smith or Kind regards, Technical Support.’

Exactly the reason I do this as well.

The idea is that you’re showing people who might otherwise be worried to declare their gender preference that it is completely normal.

the council here make their staff do it so I wouldn’t assume the person is some form of idiot like a pp suggested.

it doesn’t bother me either way tbh

You ARE increasingly obliged to declare pronouns. DH was at a conference and he left the pronoun part of his online registration blank and it printed out he/him anyway.

Anyway there are several reasons this practice is harmful

1. Stereotype threat as PPs have said - there is evidence that reminding others you are a woman or female increases sexual stereotyping and prejudiced treatment
2. Compelled speech - you may be forced to call a male person 'she' especially in professions where accuracy is needed (health, crime etc)
3. Conflict with Equality Act on belief - nobody should be compelled to believe in gender identity
4. Indirect discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation (GNC gay men and lesbians say that they have been harassed to declare their pronouns by allegedly 'well-meaning' colleagues)

I literally said nothing to imply I spoke for other women. I said I have lived experience. I've read back my quote and not sure how you took that from what I said.

I disagree with your statement that supporting the use of pronouns makes me a misogynist. I am a feminist, just not a trans-exclusitory one. There are many beliefs which come under the heading of feminism and no one group gets to be the gatekeeper of who is a feminist.

I don't love your tone of derision for women who are not actively fighting misogyny. There are lots of reasons women aren't able to. The onus for change rests with the oppressor, not the oppressed. It is great if women feel able to fight the fight, but being critical of women who can't is misdirected in my opinion.

But, I think I do fight misogyny. I just have no interest in excluding transgender women from the group I want to fight for.

How is it hurting other women?

Resorting to insults doesn't make you look big or clever, by the way.

Another good reason not to declare your pronouns is that many employers - especially those in senior positions - think they are nonsense and that the kind of people who deploy them make difficult colleagues.

With regards to point two, there is no NHS Trust that requires you to address people by a pronoun other than the one they prefer for accuracy. I think you might have got the wrong impression about this.

The Equalities Act notes being transgender as a protected characteristic. I'm not aware of it offering any protection to people who don't believe in gender identity, though I'm happy to learn about this if I am wrong.