Holding off potty training a 3y9m old

[AmySma1i]

Hi, my DD is 3y9m old and isn't showing many signs of being potty trained yet after successful earlier attempts, we've taken a break after a long spell where we've been able to have no pants but to no avail, she recognises far too late with nothing on, and never notices until patterns change in the nappy.

We've got a trip to visit grandparents in Australia in 2 months time and I don't think we'll reliably crack potty training by then if at all. I've decided to go back to just nappies for the trip and the month away and try again when we get back. However she's going to turn 4 years old whilst away and i never thought I'd still have a 4 year old in nappies day and night. Am I making the correct decision holding off or should I give one big final push despite there not being many signs? Any advice as well as general thoughts would be amazing ❤

Every fifteen minutes is overkill ,I trained my disabled non verbal child at nine ,and we had Set times ,I would remind her regularly, and ask if she needs a wee etc ,take her to the toilet and get her used to sitting down etc ,praise her and make a big fuss of her when she has a wee on the toilet.

Was DD premature, @AmySma1i? I think it's very odd to talk about age down to months post 2 yo, unless you need to explain a correction IYSWIM

Othere are right in that if she cant feel when she goes then there might be other issues going on. The most likely is constipation, which can stop kids from feeling when they need to go for a wee. The Eric continence website is brilliant and will help you work out different things to try. I would also ask for a gp refereal to continence if you try for the next 2 months and ther are still issues. They usually won't refer on until age 4 anyway.

Hi I didn't know what to put in the title if I'm honest, just to show that she hasn't just turned 3. She wasn't premature, only 9 days early so it's not a different developmental age which is causing her lack of readiness sadly

I've managed to get on and set up another visit in a couple of weeks and we'll see if we can get a referral . I think that's the worry is that there's just no real signs to tick off that she's going to have a chance with it at the moment

Hi OP, don't let the comment about neglect upset you. My DD had no additional needs but was later to all physical milestones eg not walking til 21 months and jumping til age 3.5. It took me well over 9 months to train her but I had to do it because she's a summer birthday and started school a couple of weeks after she turned 4.
She did have accidents for at least the first term in school. She was scared of doing a poo for a long time and requires lots of support. But we got there.
You just need do ditch the nappies and get on with it. It will happen. It will involve a lot of washing. Take extra clothes everywhere. Bambino Mio pants can be helpful for preventing embarrassing puddles in public but also making sure they're not in pull ups. They get wet but it stops them soaking their trousers and shoes right through.
My 5yo in Year 1 is still in night pull ups though. I have no idea where to start with that. She just doesn't wake to go.

Being continent at night is not something that can be trained, it's to do with a hormone kicking in ,incidentally, my disabled child was dry at night long before he was dry during the day.

Thank you, we know our final goal is to start school and thankfully have time to get there due to not being a summer child. She was also late to these at similar times, we're definitely having one more big go at pantless.

My elder daughter trained at the turn of 3 with no issues but is in night pull ups still at 7 as well so best of luck with that and sorry I can't give help for that.

It does make me wonder if there is a genetic thing causing these problems

I would crack on with training her but definitely use pull ups on the plane! You don't want an accident there - it's not fair on your DD, the other passengers and the cabin crew. And the toilets on planes can be scary for kids, busy and closed for long periods for take-off, landing and turbulence. On a recent trip, I actually put a pull up on my 4 yo who has been reliably dry for over a year because we missed our take off slot and were stuck on the tarmac for an hour with no access to the toilet and DC wasn't sure they could hold it. I'd always take a few in case of emergencies.

Ive trained three , all by age 2.5.

As mine were younger I had potty in the living room with a home made reward chart sellotaped to the wall behind it, so they knew the visible reward was to do with the potty.
They got a sticker after each use and a chocolate button. I kept the chocolate button packet sitting out , high up , so they could see and know there were more to get if they done more pees later.
Also big cheer and “ wow “ when anything was done.

Went cold turkey , no pull ups , just pants straight away.

As your DD is older I wouldn’t use a potty , I’d go straight to the toilet , she needs to be using an actual toilet same as at school / nursery.

Agree with all PP , it’s not about “ signs “ , you just decide to train them and go for it.
All they need is a verbal grasp to be able to say “ yes” when you say have you done a pee pee etc. They don’t need to be coming to you with a full sentence.

Bite the bullet and get it done.

This is what happens when you leave it too late, they don't want to do it. Unless she hasadditional needs it is disgraceful lazy parenting

This is what happens when you leave it too late, they don't want to do it. Unless she hasadditional needs it is disgraceful lazy parenting

please ignore this judgemental bollox OP. You sound on pins about this and have no doubt done your best. Things aren't always straightforward but it will work out in the end.

@AmySma1i , just to answer your question, yes! There’s absolutely a genetic component. A very strong one between sisters. Women with older sisters who have urinary incontinence are 60% more likely to have urinary incontinence themselves. So your older daughter might have trained at 3, but the fact she’s still not night dry at 7 is VERY relevant. Night dryness can be so many things - they don’t make enough of the hormone to tell their kidneys to stop making wee while they sleep, or their bodies don’t wake them enough to wee, or their bladders don’t stretch enough to hold it, or… The Eric site has great information about the physical differences to tell what’s causing night wetness. Here’s that article about the genetic link:
www.webmd.com/urinary-incontinence-oab/news/20041014/urinary-incontinence-runs-in-family

And here’s that useful Eric link about types of night wetness, so you might be able to determine if both your daughters don’t have enough Vasopressin yet (if they’re both still doing huge, dilute wet wees in the bed and not waking immediately):
www.eric.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=424dac2d-352a-4e31-80c0-2e55e402fb52

Did you miss the bit where OP said that her DD doesn't even realise she's seeing when she's on the toilet?

DS1 was dry, day and night before he was 2, DS2 was 2.5. However, I've worked in nurseries where some children need more support with toilet training because there's more going on than "they just don't want to do it."

It doesn't sound like the OP or her DD are being lazy to me. Quite the opposite in fact.

*weeing not seeing

You need to do it , this waiting for signs thing doesn’t happen for all children. Just take the nappy’s away stay at home a few days and put the work in she’s old enough to do it.

I would say to crack on and do it, if you need more help as a PP said Eric is great.

Don't worry too much, I once heard Romesh Ranganathan say something like 'you never see a 15 yr old in nappies saying 'just didn't bother learning mate''.

She'll be fine, just really focus and I'm sure she'll get there soon.

Definitely are trying every trick in the book to no avail, how did you help those slower at training in nurseries?

Thank you so much for all this research sharing, I'll have a read through but what is said does sound like a similar situation

In your situation I would wait. Long flights and travel without reliable potty training will be a nightmare. Wait till you are back and try again.

You need to make more of an effort to train her. A nearly 4 year old should not be in nappies. My friends DD is not 2 until November and she is already showing signs of being ready to potty train. I've two DDs myself and they were both trained just after they turned 2.

@AmySma1i Yes, a lack of Vasopressin is what causes children who fully empty their bladders at night. But often the treatment is to wait and see - supplementing with Vasopressin can be difficult and usually it’s reserved for cases of bed wetting that last into the teens. You mention your youngest daughter just doesn’t seem to notice she needs to wee at all - this does sound like something to talk to the doctor about, and you said you now have an appointment in a few weeks. Combined with you saying she’s a bit small for her age but wasn’t pre-mature, and she was behind on physical milestones, it might not be a bad idea to check a few of her hormones via blood test (I know; the thought of a blood test with a 3.75 year old isn’t very pleasant). The GP who has her records and knows her full history will know best. And do check that Eric link, in particular. If your eldest daughter is actually having small wet patches, or waking up soon after weeing, it may not be related to Vasopressin. Good luck! You sound like you’re really trying and you’re nearing your wit’s end. I hope the GP, and some time to grow in the next two months, will maybe help!

Definitely we'll bring all this up, thank you so much for your time

Is she verbal? What happens when you talk about it?

I mean why post this ,does it make you feel better to be so nasty to a complete stranger ??
If you have nothing nice to say say nothing 🙄