If you don't usually work Monday's and now there's an extra bank holiday...

[Dressme2023]

...would you be bothered?
I'm actually not, I'm getting to see the funeral which is the important bit to me.
However many colleagues have the same day off and are now pushing for an extra half day annual leave to make up for it.
It feels a bit unnecessary and grabby to me but I'm in the minority.
Thoughts?

You're being unreasonable - you should get extra leave granted
You're not being unreasonable - everyone should just accept it for what it is and move on

[Aprilx]

@willithappen

Also seem to be largely leaving out the fact that it's down to whether employers recognise the bank holidays in contracts

Literally nobody is ignoring that, it is perhaps you that is not reading carefully enough.

This thread is about the scenario where full time staff have been given an extra day of leave whereas part time staff have not.

[CurrentHun]

www.acas.org.uk/acas-advice-for-the-queens-funeral-bank-holiday

ACAS have given some advice to employers. Unfortunately it doesn’t address the discrimination issue of this thread. Just talks about what employers should do for the individual employee.. not for fairness between employees.

[gatehouseoffleet]

The law is very clear if full time employees are given additional leave part timers must get the pro rata equivalent

I've never quite understood why this applies to bank holidays though. If you don't work Mondays, you don't work them anyway. I did work part-time before these rules became a thing, and it never occurred to me to think I was hard done by if I missed out on a bank holiday. And you actually end up getting shafted as a part-timer as you get less holiday you can choose yourself, as you need to use so much leave for the bank holidays that you might not actually want to take. I agree the law is contradictory.

[FlippertyGibberts]

@gatehouseoffleet

The law is very clear if full time employees are given additional leave part timers must get the pro rata equivalent

I've never quite understood why this applies to bank holidays though. If you don't work Mondays, you don't work them anyway. I did work part-time before these rules became a thing, and it never occurred to me to think I was hard done by if I missed out on a bank holiday. And you actually end up getting shafted as a part-timer as you get less holiday you can choose yourself, as you need to use so much leave for the bank holidays that you might not actually want to take. I agree the law is contradictory.

Part-time staff aren't shafted by this at all. You're given the AL hours as extra and then take them off on bank holidays when you should be working. It's simply for AL accounting.

[MinnieMountain]

Well I have been given time off in lieu after a discussion with our HR officer. But “we want to keep you happy” seems to have been what’s swung it. And I can’t tell anyone as she’s also had people moaning that they can’t do much with their day off.

[Mummyme87]

I work in the nhs, shiftnworker, I don’t do Mondays, I’ll get 7.5hrs added to my annual leave. However, that’s how all the BH get given to us, our service is 24/7

[Princessglittery]

@gatehouseoffleet

The law is very clear if full time employees are given additional leave part timers must get the pro rata equivalent

I've never quite understood why this applies to bank holidays though. If you don't work Mondays, you don't work them anyway. I did work part-time before these rules became a thing, and it never occurred to me to think I was hard done by if I missed out on a bank holiday. And you actually end up getting shafted as a part-timer as you get less holiday you can choose yourself, as you need to use so much leave for the bank holidays that you might not actually want to take. I agree the law is contradictory.

The law is not contradictory.

The law gives you 5.6 weeks leave which may include BH.
The law also states an employer can specify when you take your leave. Many employers specify closed on BH so deduct these from leave allowance upfront. If you have a NWD on a BH you don’t get the leave deducted.

Remember CD, Boxing Day and NYD can fall on any day of the week.

[CurrentHun]

That’s great you got paid leave of some kind Minnie, and shows it’s worth asking again.
Our HR (public sector) said that it was OK for management not give non-Monday workers the same benefit (of a paid day off) that Monday workers would get, because you can still watch the funeral for the Queen even if you’re doing so unpaid.

It’s totally beside the point- in no way is it compulsory to watch the funeral for any of our staff- paid on Monday or not. An extra bank holiday perk is being given to some staff and not to others though. That’s clearly unfair. They didn’t do this with the Jubilee bank holiday so I have no idea why they say this one is different. It’s no different.

My colleagues on mat leave are particularly upset. Every day of extra leave makes a massive difference for them. And the rest of us are always working well over our paid hours to keep the service as good as it can be after the pandemic and now staff goodwill has been undermined, pointlessly.

[jacostajune]

@gatehouseoffleet

The law is very clear if full time employees are given additional leave part timers must get the pro rata equivalent

I've never quite understood why this applies to bank holidays though. If you don't work Mondays, you don't work them anyway. I did work part-time before these rules became a thing, and it never occurred to me to think I was hard done by if I missed out on a bank holiday. And you actually end up getting shafted as a part-timer as you get less holiday you can choose yourself, as you need to use so much leave for the bank holidays that you might not actually want to take. I agree the law is contradictory.

That's ridiculous.
Next week I will work four days and get paid for four days as I don't work on Mondays.
My full time colleagues will get paid for 5 days and work four days.
That is not fair.
So I will 4/5 of my daily hours added to my AL allowance to make up for it.

[elm26]

I only work Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday (my choice) and it's never occurred to me that I'm owed anything from a bank holiday Monday or Friday?

[CurrentHun]

Once you’ve read the thread, you might start thinking differently. Its not about your choice of which working weekdays, legally.

[Cervinia]

This is madness, I work Tuesday, Wed, thurs. I went into work on Tuesday and there was an email Waiting confirming my leave balance had been credited with 4.8 hours.

I work 24 hours of a 36 FTE.

This is the correct and fair way.

[spongedog]

Thank you for this thread. I work part-time in a school in a forced 50:50 job share. My jobshare partner has had far more BH than me so I work more for the same money, so this thread prompted me to contact my employer.

I shall update with their (outsourced legal firm) reply.

[jacostajune]

@elm26

I only work Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday (my choice) and it's never occurred to me that I'm owed anything from a bank holiday Monday or Friday?

If your colleagues get paid for BHs then you are most definitely owed something. Are you sure it's not added to your annual leave pro-rata?

[Princessglittery]

@CurrentHun

That’s great you got paid leave of some kind Minnie, and shows it’s worth asking again.
Our HR (public sector) said that it was OK for management not give non-Monday workers the same benefit (of a paid day off) that Monday workers would get, because you can still watch the funeral for the Queen even if you’re doing so unpaid.

It’s totally beside the point- in no way is it compulsory to watch the funeral for any of our staff- paid on Monday or not. An extra bank holiday perk is being given to some staff and not to others though. That’s clearly unfair. They didn’t do this with the Jubilee bank holiday so I have no idea why they say this one is different. It’s no different.

My colleagues on mat leave are particularly upset. Every day of extra leave makes a massive difference for them. And the rest of us are always working well over our paid hours to keep the service as good as it can be after the pandemic and now staff goodwill has been undermined, pointlessly.

Unless the BH is being deducted from existing leave allowances they are not complying with legislation.

As you are public sector, talk to your TU and ask them to query this and establish the legal basis of this decision.

[Princessglittery]

@MinnieMountain glad you got the day.

[Princessglittery]

@spongedog

Thank you for this thread. I work part-time in a school in a forced 50:50 job share. My jobshare partner has had far more BH than me so I work more for the same money, so this thread prompted me to contact my employer.

I shall update with their (outsourced legal firm) reply.

I would set out the calculations I provided much earlier in the thread. They are very hard to argue with.

Good luck

[TroysMammy]

Nothing has been said to me about the BH. As I mentioned up thread. My colleague's entitlement this year 14 days holiday and 7 days paid bank holiday and the day off whereas I've had 14 days holiday, 3 days paid bank holiday and the other bank holidays off but not paid. So my colleague has 21 days paid holiday because the working pattern is 2.5 days at the beginning of the week and I have had 17 days paid holiday because my working pattern is 2.5 days the end of the week. Is that fair?

[MinnieMountain]

If you get given bank holidays on top of your annual leave, it’s not fair @TroysMammy .
I work Tuesday-Thursday so get given the BH days for the year pro-rata. If a BH falls on one of my work days (eg Christmas) I have to use one of those days.

[elm26]

@jacostajune when I was full time I got paid for bank holidays. This has really blown my mind 🤯 if I choose not to work Mondays though isn't that my fault?

[Princessglittery]

@Princessglittery

From what you have said that’s not right.

Example
Employee A works Mon Tue & Wed AM = 18 hours 45 mins
Employ B works Wed PM, Thu & Fri
= 18 hours 45 Mins

Full time =

• 5 days
• 37.5 hours
• 20 days leave x 7.5 hours = 150 hours
• 8 BH x 7.5 hours = 60 hours
• Total gross leave = 210 hours.
• Less 60 hours for BH
• Total net leave = 150 hours

Employee A

• MTW(AM) 2.5 days
• 18.75 hours
• Leave 150 hours/37.5 x 18.75 = 75 hours
• BH 60 /37.5 x20 = 30 hours
• Gross leave = 105 hours
• less BH falling on a working day (NYD, Mon = 7.5, GF Fri = 0, EM Mon = 7.5, MD Mon = 7.5, SBH Mon = 7.5, ABH Mon = 7.5, CD Tue = 7.5 BD Wed = 3.75) = 48.75 hours
• Net leave 105 - 48.75 = 56.25 hours

Employee B

• W(PM), TF 2.5 days
• 18.75 hours
• Leave 150 hours/37.5 x 18.75 = 75 hours
• BH 60 /37.5 x20 = 30 hours
• Gross leave = 105 hours
• Less BH falling on a working day NYD, Mon = 0, GF Fri = 7.5, EM Mon = 0, MD Mon = 0, SBH Mon = 0, ABH Mon = 0, CD Tue = 0, BD Wed = 3.75) = 11.25
• Net leave 105 - 11.25 = 93.75 hours

BH

• NYD New Years Day
• GF Good Friday
• EM Easter Monday
• MD May Day
• SBH Spring BH
• ABH August BH
• CD Christmas Day
• BD Boxing Day

This year it would be different because of Jubilee weekend but I thought easier to do a more typical year. As NYD, CD & BD move each year the calculations need doing each year.

Its late but I hope this makes sense.

@TroysMammy I did this last night for you and forgot to tag you.

You will need to adapt this for 2022 because they moved the SBH to a Friday and added an extra day on a Thursday for the Jubilee. They have also now added the 19th.

Full Time BH 10 x 7.5 = 75 hours
PT 75 / 37.5 x 18.75 = 37.5 hours + 150 hours = 187.5 gross leave


Employee A (NYD Mon = 7.5, GF Fri = 0, EM Mon = 7.5, MD Mon = 7.5, JD Thur = 0, SBH Fri = 0, ABH Mon = 7.5, 19th Mon = 7.5, CD Mon = 7.5 BD Tue = 7.5) = 52.5 hours deducted.

Employee B (NYD, Mon = 0, GF Fri = 7.5, EM Mon = 0, MD Mon = 0, JD Thursday = 7.5, SBH Fri = 7.5, ABH Mon = 0, 19th Mon = 0, CD Mon = 0, BD Tue = 0)= 22.5 hours deducted

[Princessglittery]

@spongedog see post above

[CurrentHun]

Nice work PrincessGlittery thanks for all your posts

[CurrentHun]

www.slaterheelis.co.uk/employment-category/time-off-for-the-queens-funeral/

Law firm advice confirming lots of the details discussed on this thread

[CurrentHun]

And here www.stevens-bolton.com/site/insights/articles/public-holiday-for-the-queens-funeral-your-questions-answered