to expect people to get their children to vacate seats.

[noonar]

ok, am really not sure what the consensus will be here, so here goes...

dd goes to swimming lessons. there are about 35 children doing classes of different levels. the spectators' are is very hot and cramped. there is v little room for an adult to sit on the floor, and only about 25 seats.

last week, for some reason, there was a large number of siblings watching the lessons with their parents. many of these were occupying a seat. one mum had 2 sons with her. they took up 3 seat. also, a dad let his 2yo have a seat to herself.

meanwhile, i was struggling to keep tabs on my 3yo, while standing, as she edged close to the safety rail between us and poolside.

now, i know children are people too and should be treated with respect but do you think it was fair to allow children to occupy so many seats , in the circs?

policywonk i completely agree. i think respect works both ways and a lot of adults, and i'm talking from experience especially older adults do not give some children the respect they deserve. you have to show respect to get it back and if a child recieves respect then it will be returned. if you want a seat then you should get there earlier to make sure you get a seat, i have seen ,many an adult not even bother to hold a door open when a child is coming through. Although i will say to my children get up and let that lady have a seat if elderly or visably pregnant, different situation.

Well, I would think it fairly respectful to others to try and make sure that everyone who could have a seat, did. And I do sometimes ask one of my children to sit on my lap to free up a space for someone else.

But that's because my children are small enough to reasonably sit on my lap, not because they're children and therefore less worthy of a seat than an adult, which is a bit of a 'children seen and not heard' sort of attitude.

Having said that, in our front room, I would expect my children to give up seats for a guest who is an adult and sit on a cushion on the floor, because my children are much more supple than most adults who visit. But again, not just because they're children.

Safety-wise, I'd point out, that having a DH who once cracked the windscreen of a sudden-braking bus with his forehead (amazingly he was OK)I try not to let my children stand.

Agree with you sue, for just the reasons that I give. My children can sit on my lap, even at the great ages of 11 and 7.

In fact it is nice to have a hug!

Also suebaroo at home your children are hosts. I myself would sit on the floor and give guests the seats and would expect the same from my children.

i completely sympathise with op

this happens at our pool

but i go to the cafe

PW - they are valid points but I disagree with them. Children are not the equal of adults for lots of reasons. Of course they should be treated with respect, their feelings listened to and acted on, they are legitimate and important people in our society.

However, I don't think twice of telling my dcs to move for an adult because I think they should. I don't want them to think chairs or anything else operate on a first come, first served basis. It is manners to do something for someone else, and children should be shown how to have good manners. I don't care whether the person who sits down is worthy of their respect, they are their elder and therefore should be given respect. End of.

This is why they are taught to hold the door open for the class at school for instance. Of course each child could open and close the doors themselves, but it is an act of citizenship to hold the door open, even if they hate Billy because he's a pain.

Though I take children's chairs, so I'm clearly quite a pain about all this.

And actually I think it works like giving for charity or something too. It makes them feel good.

I have seen ds1 offer his seat to someone, and he stands up and shrugs and looks pleased with himself.

He gets that it's a good thing to do, and smiles modestly while everyone tells him what a charming person he is.

Totally agree with Hatwoman. Children should stand up for adults (and other children in need for that matter) because it is an act of kindness. It's immaterial whether the other adult is feckless, unkind or irresponsible, it's a matter of principle. And if you are only kind to people once you have established their perceived "deservedness" then it would be a very sad world indeed imo.

I think dc feel a sense of pride when they behave kindly towards others too.

Also agree with Hatwoman about it being a good lesson for children to be aware of what is going on around them. Some adults could brush up on those skills frankly. At my dd's school Christmas concert this year, a father decided to stand up in the front of the stage and film his daughter's performance, blocking the view of all the other parents. He was completely oblivious to everyone else and the increasingly loud chorus of protest from teachers .... unbelievable ...

Oh and on the might is right front and being selfish about remaining seated myself - I great benign despot that I am. I suppose the difference is that I don't think my children are my equal, I think they are lots of marvellous and ingenious things, but not my equal.

And so therefore I don't treat them as such. And I don't expect them to treat other adults as they might their peer group either.

Agree with you that there are many adults who need some lessons in basic politeness.

I was in ds's nativity play last year and the woman and man behind me talked all the way through it, except when their own child was singing. At which point they shut up. They had no respect for the needs of others (to hear their own child perform) at all.

Personally, I would always have my child stand or sit on my knee, I think it's just a respect thing that my parents drilled into me at an early age.

Think the balance has shifted in favour of good manners...... Clam cheers up about state of modern society.

Only read first 2 pages but I'm with cod on this

I do believe children should respect adults & other children for that matter. If we all lived in a world of more mutual respect it would be a nicer place.
Children will as they grow, learn that not all adults are "perfect" & worthy of respect but if we teach our children from an early age about generosity to others & basic good manners then maybe we will have in years to come a kinder adult population.
and I do teach my children by both example & expecting them to model good behaviour.
So they have seen me give up my seat, hold open doors etc & by asking ds1 to do the same he does it now without prompting.
There is no reason why modern urban environments can't be full of polite, well mannered people in the same way as a small community can. I just don't understand that argument at all

personally if someone told my child to get up so they could have there seat, they would probably get much more than they bargained for. u have no rite to tell anyones child anything, i've no problem with someone telling my child off if they are truly being naughty and if they cannot tell me about it at the time

Most of us would have the manners to ASK them to move.

why should a 9yr old child that has been at school allday and is tired b expected to sit on his mothers knee for one it's embarrassing for them, he's far to heavy to sit on my lap and he's a person in his own right so why shouldn't he have a seat, it's not that he doesn't have manners it's that i can't see for what reason he shouldn't have a seat. And isn't it bad manners to ask for a child to get up so you can sit down, i was always taught bad manners to ask you should always wait for it to be offered!!!

Yes, but BitCat if it was down to you the seat obviously wouldn't be offered....

My child sits on my lap for an adult. If someone who needs a seat more than me comes then both my child and I stand. Basic good manners and compassion.

Breaks my heart on a bus sometimes as the elderly give up their seats for the elderly AND infirm while younger people, and I'm talking usually 30s and below, do nothing. Once I almost shouted (from my standing position holding my child's hand) "What is wrong with you all?" I wish I had.

I cannot understand why people wouldn't teach their children to have compassion for others, whether they are "worthy" of it or not.

OK, what I don't get about this 'manners' argument is this: if it's good manners to offer other people seats, why aren't you adults willing to do the offering (to other able-bodied young adults, this is). Why is this behaviour considered good manners only for children?

I don't think that people are saying that it is.

To me it goes like this. If there are limited numbers of seats available, why should my family get, say, 4, when other families get none?

If I were out with my child, I wouldn't take up 2 seats, if another family had none.

I would get my child to set on my lap. The other family could use the other seat as they saw fit really. But o would imagine that most would have the adult sit, and their child sit in their lap,

That way the geratest number of people could have a seat.

Rather than, 'We got here first, so there'

mb that sounds perfectly reasonable and fair, but I don't think it's the same as what a lot of posters on here are arguing!

I mean , your rationale is about fairness and equal apportion. In that situation I would do roughly the same thing, except I would probably stand and let my child have the seat because I can't stand being cramped.

PolicyWonk - I suppose because they wouldn't take it and it would be embarrassing. Most adults would take a seat a child had offered though.....I may not to be honest as it would depend on the situation.....