to expect people to get their children to vacate seats.

[noonar]

ok, am really not sure what the consensus will be here, so here goes...

dd goes to swimming lessons. there are about 35 children doing classes of different levels. the spectators' are is very hot and cramped. there is v little room for an adult to sit on the floor, and only about 25 seats.

last week, for some reason, there was a large number of siblings watching the lessons with their parents. many of these were occupying a seat. one mum had 2 sons with her. they took up 3 seat. also, a dad let his 2yo have a seat to herself.

meanwhile, i was struggling to keep tabs on my 3yo, while standing, as she edged close to the safety rail between us and poolside.

now, i know children are people too and should be treated with respect but do you think it was fair to allow children to occupy so many seats , in the circs?

I'd ask my children to move if an adult doesn't have a seat.

To me it's just manners.

Also agree with 100x.

If a seat is really needed then ask for one. Otherwise get there in enough time to get your own seat.

I was also brought up that children should offer their seats to adults. I think it's more than that though - I think it teaches children empathy, basic manners and respect for others and awareness of what's going on around them. Kids need to learn these things when they're kids, not when they've got their first job. I was on a bus once and got up to let the person by the window off the bus and a mother thought that I was offering her child my seat. I was horrified. I couldn't believe it. As long as the child is safe, then they should forgo their seat. It is also easier for a child to sit on the floor than an adult (not suggesting it for buses of course). An adult can always refuse the kind offer if they feel that they don't need to seat or that they would prefer that the child kept their own seat. It works both ways.

I always make sure DSs offer their seats to adults, unless we are on a very bumpy tube train where I worry about the little one getting flung around. If necessary I put him on my knee. Its not that kids are less important, but about trying to teach them manners (and on public transport I'm concious they have paid less/nothing for the journey).

I dunno. Yes, it is good manners, but I always feel sorry for quite small children I see on the bus/tube with those enormous great backpacks they have for school over here (half the li ttle ones' height, I kid you not) probably tired from a long day and standing. We use a lot of public transport and if I knew my dc was tired I'm not sure I'd insist on 'manners'. I might be likely to get up myself. The pool scenario/assemblies etc. is different IMO. There it surely would be possible to fin a child a bit of space on the floor or for it to share a seat with another child.

I've become very interested in the politics of seat-offering since noticing that when I ave ds2 in his sling, people fall over themselves to offer me seats (I usually decline, as it's often easier to keep standing tbh), but when I was pg - and I was big - I was invisible.

On New Year's Eve we travelled on the Tube, and the train driver actually asked adult travellers to stand for the "younger" ones, as their legs tire more quickly.

Can definitely see the logic....

DS1 actually prefers to stand on the train, rather than sit down...

I think it is good fro older children to learn it is polite to stand but under 8 the children need to sit

lennygrrl - just saw your 14.28 comment. Rofl and yes, me too!

I have to say that it is 1st come 1st served i'm afraid, no way would my 2yr old have wanted or stayed on my lap, they are people why shouldn't they get a seat. you are no more important than them. I am very polite person and i will get up on the bus, or anywhere and give up my seat if an elderly person needed it or a pregnant lady, that to me is different i can stand if i have to but these people would find it difficult for long periods of time, so it seems only rite!!!

Yes I was serious. Sometimes you get a seat and sit down and watch, sometimes you don't. It's not the end of the world not being able to watch your dd in the water once in a while. It's not like there was nowhere for you to sit down.

Actually I can't beleive this is still going on. Shall parp myself.

of course children should give up their seats for adults if it's safe for them to stand. Basic manners for the reasons Putthatinyourpipe explains. Teaches them to consider other peoples' needs.

I was always told I should stand 'because your legs are younger'.

Children should definately give up their seats for an adult. Very bad manners not to IMO. My children get a chair if there are enough but I would be very embarrassed if they were sitting while adults stood. It is a matter of respect....bloody hell, perhaps this is at the heart of the unruly teen problem we have in this country. Children aren't taught to respect adults anymore .

However.....on public transport small children should get a seat over adults for safety reasons. They cannot hold on and cope with anticipating the ride in the same way. IMO.

am enjoying this thread. giving up your seat is a kind thing to do. I like to teach my kids to be kind. I like being kind. Being kind makes me feel happier. It's also a respectful thing to do. and there's nothing wrong with respect.

I also agree with putthatinyourpipe - giving up your seat is also something that shows you are aware of the people around you and can empathise with them. I think awareness of what's going on around you is really important (and ultimately I think all good manners stem from this). It;s one of my huge bugbears when people just merrily do their thing without considering how it effects others (kids playing nintendos in the viewing area when there is somewhere else they could be is a really good example of this, another one is stopping dead on the pavement to do something or other rather than standing to the side - am constantly explaining this one to dds).

It's not about rules - neither children must always give up their seats (on buses I think younger children need seats more than most adults) nor first come first served -it's simply about being aware of the people around you. Very often I do think that awareness would lead you to conclude that children giving up their seat would be the best solution - most children can sit on the floor more easily than most adults, in the same way that I can sit on the floor more easily than a 60-year old

LOL. I seem to spend half my life in the spectator's area of the poolside while my kids are at swimming club three times a week.

2 weeks ago, I walked in, saw one of friends already sitting there with an empty seat next to her, dumped all my stuff on the floor (I had 3 children with me and with generated a fair pile!) and made to sit down. The seat did have a coat on it.. but I thought that was my friend's!

Eventually, I eventually became aware that the lady in the seat the other side had stood up and was standing there giving my daggers, hands on hips! (I had been merrily chatting to the ladies on the other side who wwere asking me about DS's hospital procedure that say). I turned to her and she said, whilst gestering with her pointy finger.. "Coat! Chair! Coat! Chair!" For a second or two I wondered what the hell she was on about before it dawned that she saw meaning the chair was reserved for a younger child (about 3) who was running about.. and that the coat was hers (the woman's!)

I actually laughed out loud at her rudeness before apologising extremely profuseley and moving all our (considerable) stuff, to try to find a seat elsewhere. My friend and the ladies next to her watched the whole process open mouthed!! What would it have cost her to say "Actually, that's my daughter's seat..." even if, as you say, it's a bit of pisstake giving little tiny children seats while adults stands up for an hour or more! Her child did not even SIT on the seat during the whole hour, although, as my friend noted, the woman spent the whole time trying to make her sit there!

The correct response to her "Coat! Bag!" order should have course been "Bovvered!" ) but I only thought of that later

God.. she spoke to me as I was the three years old! Quite funny really...

It's become a joke since then.. we all (rather childishly!) pretend to reserve large numbers of seats and bark "COAT! BAG!" at people attempting to sit down (Most of us had senses of humour and are friendly to each other!

Five minutes after she ordered me away from the seat I was handing out letters (as I'm on the committee and do admin etc) and she snatched it off me most ungraciously! LOL

I would have had my ds sat on my knee, or standing next to me - Whether he would had done it without screaming is another matter!

marvellous story shinyhappypeople. yes "face. bovvered." would have been the perfect reply.

so glad you had the right response - superior humour - rather than getting all het up. laughing about these things is definitely the way to handle it

I don't go to my dd's swimming lessons since I work FT but my parents take her for me. Dad sits in the canteen with a cup of tea or something and Mum prefers to stand anyway at one side since it's hotter than hell in there (the spectator's area is totally enclosed like a goldfish bowl). Roll on the day when she gets in the big pool.....

You aren't being UR but most parents at swimming lessons at the end of a day are probaly one second from running amok with a machine gun if anything else is put upon them. Expecting them to notice your needs is probably a wee bit unrealistic.

Just ask one of the children to budge up next time - I bet they'd move.

Maybe i'm old fashioned but I would always expect ds1 to give up his seat.
If there are not enough seats & he wants to sit there is always the floor.
I also expect him to hold the door open for others especially adults.
As well as being just basic good manners its all part of respect for elders & I think that is what is lacking in some children these days. OK i'll get off of my soapbox now!

My ds has been brought up to say please, thankyou, excuse me, to hold open doors for people and to stand up when someone else needs a seat, i thought this was how all children were supposed to be brought up?

Thats what I was trying to say lottie - but you put it better than me

One way to drop the hint is to plonk yourself down on the floor next to the seats. It doesn't bother me to sit on the floor, actually. But funny enough, it's very disconcerting to most other folk and sometimes several adults will shift at once, all offering to budge themselves or their kids over so I can have a proper chair.

Of course children should give up seats for adults. Otherwise what message are they getting about being the centre of the entire universe. They need to show respect and courtesy. Basic stuff.

WHat amuses me is seeing a family driving around with the father driving, the child in the passenger seat and the mother in the back. I have friends who say, "Oh she likes being up front". So the poor mum loses any chance of an adult chat and the kid thinks he/she is in charge.

WHen we were growing up the adults set the agenda, now the kids do. Can't help feeling we somehow missed out.