DIL is really miserable

[UppityDIL]

DIL has a few mental health issues and takes numerous medication. She sometimes appears very quiet and vacant, I understand this is probably the side effects of her medication.

DH and I are always friendly and ask her if she’s ok, try and make polite conversation etc. Last week they visited and she was particularly ‘off’. I asked if she was ok and she just glanced and muttered something then looked away. She spent the rest of the visit silent.

On the phone later I said to my son, if she doesn’t feel like she wants to engage in conversation that’s fine, but it makes me uncomfortable that she just sits there silently. Maybe she shouldn’t visit if she doesn’t want to engage in conversation and hopefully we can see her when she’s feeling a bit better.

We have tried to support her but she won’t discuss anything with us, which of course is her choice, but makes it harder for us to understand and support her.

Today we were at a family function and she blanked both DH and I. We tried to make conversation and she just looked at us like something she’d trodden in and ignored us.

DH said to DS why is she so rude to us? And he said because she felt we should apologise for suggesting she shouldn’t visit if she’s going to sit there in silence.

im not sure who is being unreasonable?

My brother's ex also has MH issues. So at any party in which she was present we took turns being body guards for our kids so she couldn't verbally attack them. Later we found out that as she couldn't get to our children she just went for other kids. We should have assigned a security guard to her instead. She just loves to make children cry.

I always knew if she had had a disagreement with my DB because then she'd attack me too. Safer than going for him, I guess.

They have three kids. She was the one who pushed for number three. But after he was born, she started to hate their oldest, who had formerly been the golden child.

But I guess we are rude to avoid her because SHE is the victim?

I remember going to family gatherings when I was really ill and getting home to find I'd dug by fingernails into the palm of my hand so hard I'd drawn blood and not even realised, that's how tense I was. I wouldn't remember who I'd spoken to, or what I'd said, it was a blur. There's a good chance I sat in a corner, or clung to DH and said very little. I can't imagine I was much of a conversationalist! I would have been focused intently on trying not to cry, have a panic attack or vomit, just counting down the minutes until I could get home and fall apart in private.

I understand that people will read this and think "well, why go then? Just stay at home!" I did, most of the time. But you need to understand the guilt and shame that comes with mental illness. I was convinced that I was a burden to all those around me and DH and the kids would be better off without me. I spent plenty of days hiding in bed with the curtains drawn not talking to anyone, but I felt desperately guilty about that so every so often I felt I had to force myself to do things out of duty. I was also convinced that if I did skip a family event everyone would know the reason why. Mostly, I didn't want to let DH down anymore than I felt I already was.

Your DIL may be difficult, OP but I would urge you to try and be patient with her. Serious mental illness is a curse I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

She sounds incredibly rude.

it’s a real shame she has such difficult mh issues but it isn’t an excuse to be shitty to everyone.

She isn't, she's been shitty to a sour old boot who clearly dislikes her

Dd has mental health issues. Today was a bad day for her. I was meeting a friend who she loves so she wanted to come, she often does and my friend loves to see her, she’s known her from birth.
Dd can be the life and soul and a really good laugh, but on a bad day she is “like a zombie”. She sat in the pub with us silently whilst we talked. My friend just casually held dd hand under the table, and since we have got home has sent her silly memes every half hour or so, just to say “thinking of you, love you”. That to me is how to “manage” someone who is struggling. Not talking behind their back as to how they make you feel uncomfortable and calling them “uppity”

Wow! You've done some serious twisting here!

i'm not reading 7 pages worth but @UppityDIL you have my utmost sympathy. i don't have a psychiatry degree and am not a psychiatrist and i don't even pretend to know how to "treat" people with mh issues.
i've always been told to express how someone else's behavior makes me feel and take it from there, maybe that approach is old fashioned and out of rigor at this time.
how exhausting for your son.

OP, just try and explain to DS and DIL that you didn't mean to hurt feelings and if you could have a restart to this recent event and move on; but mean it. Encourage DS to help you understand her illness more. If she is all happy and kind at home and with her own peers then comes to you and acts rude, it's not her mental health, she is just rude and using a really serious health issue as an excuse to behave in ways which aren't acceptable.

I know someone with extremely manic bi-polar disorder, her day-to-day personality is really quite unpleasant, selfish and arrogant, but I can't say that because of her illness. People can have MH problems and be really shit people in general, just like people without MH problems who can be really shit too.

I think you are being flamed unfairly but your approach to handling this needs to change so you can try to understand what's really going on.

OP your DS isn't the brightest lad and lacking in diplomatic skills when it comes to his mother and his wife. A sensible and mature man would not have relayed your message verbatim without the benefit of facial expression & tone of voice to his wife as it comes across as rather harsh, like you don't like her whereas you didn't mean it to sound like that at all. Infact, you were actually trying to be helpful. He has relayed a message in quite a foolish manner and has created the tense situation between you both now. When my parents want to get a message across to dh, I listen then repackage it to dh. That way you maintain good in law relations.

Wow. Ageism and sexism - what a vile post.

Of course you’re a MIL op so whatever you do or say will be wrong. I’d find it incredibly hard in your position. Maybe take a lead from your DS and apologise - then the onus is on the truculent DIL to behave reasonably too.

I am happy to explain, the thing is I feel it’s unfair to expect others to necessarily understand MH issues and therefore know how to react or respond, it’s such a wide umbrella. We have tried hard to offer support by letting my son know we are here if either of them need anything.

It would be helpful if we had an idea of what was going on and what would be a helpful response from us, but she won’t allow him to tell us anything. If we mention things in passing she tells him off and sulks that he has ‘repeated’ something he shouldn’t have .

I get it’s a private issue that not everyone is comfortable talking about, but if she doesn’t let us in even a bit, obviously we are powerless in understanding and therefore supporting. I feel that she is making this purposeful by deliberately being difficult - as I said earlier ignoring just us and nobody else in my opinion is quite petty, and sends a strong message.

Maybe she just doesn’t want a relationship with us. I just wish we knew where we stood. This is really starting to effect my sons MH too.

good post @Tonty

filmofriend

Mh issues is a wide topic. Your SIL's behaviour doesn't bear any relation to the Dil in this thread. I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

Yabu but you know that.

K*irakirahiraku
*
What an entirely fatuous response. If I 'disliked' my DH then I wouldn't be married to him ! This ridiculous assumption that one aspect of a person's personality and behaviour requires an immediate stampede to the divorce lawyer just goes to show that you do not spend your day to day existence married to someone with a mental illness. It is just one part of them. Not the whole.

The problem with mental health is that it often (but not always) makes the person extremely self absorbed. They also get very used to having their own way because we who live with them do a large amount of care that often slips into pandering. It becomes expected and then used as a manipulation to have their own desires elevated above all others.

Yes I am sorry that it's not the politically correct opinion but people with mental health issues are no more exempt from selfish self absorbed arsehole behaviour than anyone else. Only we who live with them are always expected to 'understand' .

I do think totally blanking you is nothing to do with mental ill health and is just rude. But because she has mental health problems there should be a middle ground. You shouldn’t have to be ignored, but there is a certain amount of leeway you can also give.

I think I would just be direct with her. Make sure she feels welcome even if she feels rubbish, but say specifically that you understand it’s not easy. Does she want to just go and sit in a quiet corner instead? Or only spend a few minutes in company saying hello before just doing something else - whatever she’s happy with like watching TV. But you do also need time with your son where you can talk easily and happily - focus on protecting that really because your son needs it if he’s living with something with mental illness, it does take a toll and he needs his family around for him.

If you want a relationship with your ds and dil then you are going to have to stop prioritising your needs over everyone else's.

It was really nice that your dil made the effort to visit, even though she wasn't well enough to make conversation.

When she heard that you had rung to suggest that she shouldn't visit until she is well enough to meet your expectations, I imagine she realised you and your husband are awful people.

Thanks @fallfallfall .

We have tried hard to offer support by letting my son know we are here if either of them need anything.

Your son needed you to put up with them both visiting. He's hardly going to ask for more when you're happy to put the cat along the pigeons and be very rude to your Dil rather than do even this.

Maybe she just doesn’t want a relationship with us.
Would you want a relationship with someone who called you uppity, thought you sulked and expected to be able to tell your partner to leave you at home when you're ill? Highly unlikely she wants a relationship with you! I wouldn't.

I wish we knew where we stood
Before this it looked like she was making an effort to visit. Now I'd say it's pretty clear where you stand.

This is really starting to effect my son's mental health
So you've tried hard to support but ultimately you've chosen a course of action that would isolate him and cause him further stress. Own your behaviour. You're not being a caring parent.

You complain that she is sulking if he breaks her confidence. Quite frankly you're the last person who should be getting personal information about her health. Your sulk is her displeasure. Can you imagine saying you sulk? I bet you never think you do!

Why do you need to know exactly what’s going on with her mental health? Why should she have to explain it to you? Surely that’s for her own parents/therapist to worry about. I’d just leave the issue alone and be pleasant instead of constantly asking if she’s okay then being dissatisfied with the answer.

Fwiw, being regularly asked if you’re okay when you have a mental illness is really frustrating. Of course you’re not okay…you have a mental illness.

She sounds really quite unwell and you do not sound supportive at all.

I'll put my hand up and say I have no knowledge of mental illness., I don't take medication, and no one I know has told me they do. I don't know anything about anxiety or depression.

Having experience of how to best deal with this is not a universal thing.

It’s like someone having a broken leg and not being welcome because the host feels uncomfortable looking at the broken leg with a cast on.
How about you let her sit there in silence if she wants and try to engage her occasionally. Why is that so hard?
My MIL has had dementia for a long time and it’s very difficult and uncomfortable in her company. However we wouldn’t dream of not inviting her because it makes us uncomfortable! You suck it up because someone is ill. One day that could be you!

But it so simple in reality - you just let her be her.

You don't constantly ask her if she's ok when it's clear she's not ok and you know she has mental health issues - that's obviously just going to make her feel worse because the only options available to her are to lie and say yes she's fine to make you comfortable or to say no she's not which is going to make you very uncomfortable (especially if she doesn't feel she can explain). She doesn't owe you an explanation and you don't need to know all the details to be able to be kind, understanding or supportive. Stop trying to get out of your son what's wrong with her and then dropping him in it by mentioning it to her.

You also don't constantly try to make conversation with her where she has to keep answering questions, just allow her to be quiet for god's sake, she's not there just to entertain you. Say hi to her by all means but you don't need to talk about her or ask her anything, pay her a compliment and tell her you really like something she's wearing, then tell her a funny story about when her husband was young or something along those lines - don't have any expectations about how she will respond, just chat to her and let her listen for a little bit. Smile and be friendly.

Apologise to her and tell you don't mean to handle everything all wrong you just sometimes are really clueless and think you're doing the right thing when you're not. Then read up generally on mental illnesses and work on your empathy skills.

She’s really really really ill and you’ve made it all about you. You’ve behaved horribly.