To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Yes, the Welsh did vote for Brexit.
Unlike Scotland who want to rejoin the EU , would the Welsh do the same too even though they didn't want it the first time around and voted no? They are in a different position to the Scottish people in that respect.

Go for it.

It could far worse down here. Cornwall Council would have more power if we were a country. We know how incompetent those buggers are.

I'm Welsh. Happy to have William as my Prince. YABVU.

Hence the new Prince of Wales not only lived in Wales, speaks Welsh but is descended from a Welshman

Brilliant. At what point does a family stop being a certain nationality? Who gets to decide? It's almost as if the whole concept is meaningless bollocks.

@perturbed1 whats wrong with wanting to be an independent nation with its own language and culture?

Is there a Welsh version of SNP - how old were you in 1282 @Upthebracket22 it's obviously scared you deeply! I feel for your pain.

So they did @Sleepinggreyhounds
And that Brexit-favouring majority was slewed by a large tranche of voters who had recently moved to Wales from England, bringing their jingoism with them.
That's statistical fact, not opinion btw - nation.cymru/news/wales-brexit-vote-caused-by-english-retirees-oxford-university/

And before PP jump on me for saying 'jingoism' while being a Plaid Cymru supporter - I'm not looking to establish an empire, & I don't believe that Wales is automatically better than other countries.
I simply do not wish to be ruled by the crooks at Westminster any more.

@Legrandsophie Actually, I was the person writing just now about mines (I'm not the OP)

Yes I know there are mines around Durham too.

However, that doesn't change the history in Wales of exploitation.

I agree as well re the formation of an "England" from individual smaller kingdoms, with an eventual Viking/ Norman overclass.

That also doesn't change the history of poor treatment of the Welsh? and the attempts to suppress the Welsh language.

@Fivemoreminutesinbed

The OP is actually talking about the late 18th and into the 19th century. It is one of the most shameful events in recent history and what gave rise to the modern Welsh independence movement.

But I would point out OP that was done by the Welsh to the Welsh. They didn’t ship people in from England to do it.

It was the same time period that children in the north were being maimed and killed by industrial machinery in their thousands. And in London small children were becoming entombed in chimneys all over the city while trying to clean them. It was a disgraceful time of religious Puritanism and dreadful human rights abuses.

What's right about it? How is dividing people by a meaningless unmeasurable concept better than uniting them?

Christ, yes, this.

I respect your opinion OP but apart from being "enraged" on here, have you actually DONE anything about your strong feelings?

Started/joined a political movement, written letters, campaigned, etc, etc?

Or are you like a huge majority of those who voted remain who never actually got off their arses and DID anything but have done nothing but moan about it since?

Thanks OP for highlighting this! I have seen so many posts applauding how "pleased they are" with how William and Kate are now Prince and Princess of Wales - generally from people outside Wales without any thought to how some people in Wales feel.

The RF know it's a contentious issue hence the swift and frankly cynical announcement. Removing any option for us in Wales to have a national conversation about it.

Wales struggles to have its voice heard especially abroad where people think "Wales is a part if England" and having this non constituonal role foisted upon us does not help!

Thanks for starting a conversation about this OP and highlighting the history behind it.

An inconvenient truth. They don't let that get in the way of a good session of divisive English bashing.

Actually it’s the East Midlands who get the least public spend in the uk. And all of the principalities get more per head than England.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04033/

That’s just another opinion piece from a heavily biased source.

Again, not proof.

I am Welsh.

But you don't speak for the rest of us.

If you think Wales "struggles to have it's voice heard" then you need better representatives who will speak up for you. Change can happen if the will is there.

It's because it was bestowed yesterday that I think it's too early. If this matter is to be discussed in a serious way it should be when the great switcharound of titles is neither in the immediate past or the immediate future, and any decisions and declarations made well in advance of the next time the title is "unbestowed". Raising the issue of what William should do when his father dies when he hasn't even buried his grandmother yet is in extremely poor taste.

But is the march you hold really is merely thousands of people I wouldn't expect it to be taken that seriously. Millions marched against Brexit from a uk population of 70 million and it made no difference. If you get half a million marching for independence that might be enough to demonstrate that this is a genuine belief of most people in Wales. But the marching will only be a demonstration of whether or not this is a niche view. Of course you are free to elect separatist political leaders who are campaigning for an independence referendum. Until these requests are preseted from the duely elected representatives of the people of Wales nothing will happen, there's no amount of petitioning and marching that can over-rule democracy.

I have seen no evidence that William speaks Welsh. But I don't hold that against him as I don't expect him to.

He didn't live in Wales because he felt like it. It was carefully orchestrated by the RF, so when the time came (now) people can trot out this line!

I'm pretty sure the Welsh get more in government money per person then they pay into the system.

Most of the M4 in the south is only 2 lanes.

Exactly. They voted for the fool Mark Drakeford and Red Labour who were concerned about having the clothes and toys section on supermarkets taped during Covid, than soon anything of value for Wales.