To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

And yet the majority in Wales voted for Brexit!

@YellowTreeHouse

What evidence do you have that Wales could cope alone?

What does “cope” mean? Define cope. Several million people in the current UK have a rubbish standard of living - similar or worse to the average in poorer parts of Eastern Europe. Are they coping? Even the richest and most powerful nations have people struggling to survive. In America millions have died the last 50 years through inadequate healthcare due to lack of insurance. Define “cope” in terms of a nation and then we can have a proper discussion.

I agree. Some really knowledgeable, interesting posts. Thanks Legrandsophie

All conveniently ignored by the OP 🤔

Growing so rapidly, as in Scotland, but never getting out of first gear.

How?

Not a 'these other places do' but HOW would Wales actually find itself??

Is it really?

You do know there's no democratic right to independence, don't you, on top of everything else that's been said?

And now we’re getting prejudice against immigrants! How many generations have to live, marry & raise their children here before you consider them British. I’m pretty sure they all have British passports! 😂

It wasn't the Normans or Anglo Saxons who beat schoolchildren for speaking their native tongue @Fivemoreminutesinbed. That would be the English - it was still happening within my lifetime - it was a cold & deliberate policy to remove the Welsh language, so rich in history & culture, & thereby erase history & resistance.

OP you should get over what happened 800 years ago. It’s not healthy.

After 700 years, I think you ought to let it go!

My point exactly. You can't pick and choose. Wales is part of Britain as is England. If German princes from 300 years ago are now considered British, they are absolutely as Welsh as they are English.

Please stop blaming the English. It's lazy. The English people have no more say over what the British royal family does, either now or in centuries, almost millenia, gone past than any other British nation.

FWIW I think we should get rid of the lot of them.

Ah this old Chestnut! Welsh people pay taxes as well you know! There has been a campaign for Broadcasting to be devolved but is blocked by Westminster.

Of course it shouldn't exist. None of it should exist.

Something happening in 1230 isn't a compelling reason though. Get over it.

I fucking hate nationalism, it's the stupidest shit in the world.

The King can not undo centuries of wrong or generations of exploitation.
If Welsh people want to be an independent nation, then they should push for that and good luck to them.
If most Welsh people would rather not have the title Prince of Wales in use, then that needs to be pushed as an agenda. Charles was PoW for more than 50 years - was there a strong feeling against him during those years? I remember controversy during the Investiture (yes I'm that old).

Or other Welsh considering it was in Wales.

What do you mean by "no democratic right to independence" @DownNative because I genuinely can't fathom it. It makes about as much sense as "no independent right to democracy" ...

Time for a revolution then !

I lived in Wales for two years and my eldest was at secondary school , he was taught Welsh ( this was in 03 though )
Has it been taken off the curriculum now?

Sshhh, no facts please. Those spouting nonsense don’t like it.

Here’s another piece by a Welsh economist nation.cymru/opinion/forget-project-fear-why-an-independent-wales-would-have-no-problem-choosing-a-currency-and-managing-its-budget/

OP was talking the 13th century so your point is a bit irrelevant.

Of course it was abhorrent but it doesn't justify the racism towards English people I see on FB.

The people who think Wales could be a successful independent nation are as deluded as those who thought Brexit would make us richer. You just become a smaller, poorer fish in a lake full of sharks as UK is now discovering (much as ‘project fear’ rather accurately predicted).

And in more recent news..leaping forward to the 15th century…Henry Tudor was a Welshman of Welsh ancestry and born in Wales.

Henry Tudor defeated Richard III with an army full of Welshmen, to become Henry VII in 1485.

King Charles III is a descendant of Henry Tudor through Henry’s daughter, Margaret.

Hence the new Prince of Wales not only lived in Wales, speaks Welsh but is descended from a Welshman.

Good reply!

What’s stopping you from leaving, then? Oh wait, there isn’t enough support for your fringe views in your own nation.