To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Your point being?

What is a "civil Scot"?

And what on earth is an "ethnic Scot"?

In my experience "interest in clans" is usually expressed by Americans or Canadians whose ancestors emigrated centuries ago or people who like to nurse long held and historic grievances. The clan system is mildly interesting as history but irrelevant to modern life (although one of the contradictions of nationalist is that so many of them seem to romanticise the idea of being in thrall to a feudal over lord as long as it was a properly Scottish feudal over lord)

Being a mixture of Welsh, Irish, Viking, Saxon and Jewish, I couldn't live with myself if I were to try to rehash the wrongs my ancestors did the others.

Funnily enough this includes Protestant and Catholic Bishop ancestors calling each other out.

I can only be me. Living is hard enough without fighting the battles of the dead.

What is a "civil Scot"?

one that isn’t rude to you. 😉😆

That it wasn’t unusual for the female workforce to travel long distances as the herring migrated throughout the season. It was in response to your anecdote. It’s an fascinating history if you’re interested in that sort of thing (I am).

I think westminster is run for the benefit of the wealthy and big business, rather than any specific region. Its not really for the people.

I think that is the biggest problem reigniting and causing the resentments throughout more distant geographic regions of Great Britain. If we all felt as though we were valued parts of the whole with prosperity equally shared, those areas wouldn’t be remembering they have other local identities, capable of producing local rules which might serve them better. Congratulations Westminster. All land is originally stolen: all methods of collectively organising resources can be changed: all identities are suspect in these mongrel lands.

I must go and check out my own family tree and see if I can’t find / manufacture a connection to the ancient royalty of Mercia, the Vikings, Brigantes, or the Goddodin.

Well being a small nation anywhere can be a positive thing. For instance just now we've a poorly neighbour in hospital we've a rolling rota of help for his wife. I can pick up the phone or whats app family and friends for assistance on anything I might need. On the continent friends in Umbria and Tuscany say the same. We don't have the big cities which can be lonely. I sometimes wonder if our mental health isn't better for it. When you've Three even four generations of family locally it does share the load

We don't live in other countries we live here. Why are you afraid of our past?
If this is what we did back then, teach it and ensure it never happens agains, speak against etc. We are the only country that has never given back stolen gems and riches from other countries. We dig our heals in and refuse to teach Britain's colonial history after invading all but 22 countries.
Not everyone celebrates the RF / Empire and rightly so . . . for various reasons.

The only Prince of wales should be Michael Sheen!

Rather rude. I understand it perfectly thank you.

ROFL 🤣😂

We are the only country that has never given back stolen gems and riches from other countries.

Um … no. Just no. Couldn’t be more rot. As for teaching the history of 22 countries, I would love proper history to be taught and respected again. Care to tell us which of the millions of individuals’ histories in the 22 countries you mention should be taught first? And which 2nd, 3rd, etc? And then of the different empires and countries making up the history and identities of every single last one of them?

Gawd our teaching of history is abysmal it seems

Reading is paramount.

Thats not something to be proud of considering your government is deciding that its perfectly acceptable to have people with penises called women , (and who can be imprisoned with other women without penises even if they are rapists). Sometimes it good to look at the details, you know...

Thats enough derailment on my part, thank you to everyone who has given clear and interesting history lessons, its why I read these emotive threads instead of ignoring them.

I can say OP, that the title made me nervous without knowing the history. Thank you for the education. I think it’s just a reminder of how things have/or haven’t changed in terms of English rule.
Perhaps, start a petition? I’d sign it.

I’m a descendent of the Llwydiaid Cwm Bychan (Lloyds of Cwm Bychan) through my Nain (grandmother) and I’ve done the family tree. The Lloyds/Llwydiad come from Welsh nobility/Princes. Can’t remember exactly the number without checking but myself and Diana share the same 32nd or 33rd great grandfather, which means actually William is a descendent of Welsh royalty through his Mother’s side. Just throwing that in there.

I wonder if it is Nicola Sturgeon in disguise?

Of course you do. I wish people would just own what they say.
I’m not being (rude, racist, sexist….) is ALWAYS followed by something rude, sexist or racist.
It is always a certain type of people who say this and a very ugly character trait. The same people who say ‘I just tell it like it is’ to excuse abhorrent behaviour towards others. Again always nasty ugly hearted people who only gain validity by putting others down.
Don’t worry though I’m sure there will be another Be Kind banner soon for you to let everyone know how lovely you are.

No - as is evident none of them are predominantly German perhaps except Charles but only if living in a country for 300 years means you’re still of another nationality.

Funny that you say Rishi Sunak is British but not the King. Would you say Rishi was English?

You can pay us back for all the resources you stole first though

To the pp who mentioned Wales voting for brexit research from the LSE shows that it was English immigrants that skewed the vote

😂😂

It's taken 21 pages but we got to the right answer in the end. Tidy.

gwych

This is funny stuff 😆