To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Maybe we should make all NHS staff Princes and Princesses of the area that their hospitals serve.

Do you think that would help recruitment?

I know plenty of women in Scotland and Wales who are desperate to stay within the realms of the U.K

Eh?

I've lived in Scotland for 20 years now and I'm most definitely NOT Scottish. Northern Irish and British is what I am as well as what I put in the Scotland Census 2022.

Scotland has ZERO devolved powers in relation to national identity.

English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish are NOT national identities. They are REGIONAL identities since none of them are sovereign states in their own right.

And none feature on a passport.

The sovereign state is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The nationality is British as per the 1981 British Nationality Act.

@Upthebracket22 “I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.”

You’re absolutely reasonable to open up discussion as to why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore. People often don’t know history (including their own)…

They had a choice to use the Prince and Princess of Wales titles because it isn’t an automatic title. They could have canvassed an opinion from the Welsh people in line with democracy, for example. So many other options available.

As I found in the thread about the Kohinoor Diamond, most people don’t know the murkier aspects of royal family history that continues as if it doesn’t matter.

I think India and the other countries claiming the Kohinoor will be watching the coronation like hawks to see if Camilla will wear the Kohinoor diamond as Queen Consort. Because there is a choice to be made like no other time before (the game has changed drastically since the last Queen Consort in 1936).

"We must all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy." The Kohinoor’s a live diplomatic gem so where is the distinction between the easy and right thing to do?

Arguably, the easy (and wrong) thing has already happened with the Kohinoor. That is, separating a 10 or 11 year old child from his Queen Mother and forcing him to sign a legal Treaty was the easy thing to do in 1849. It was and is never right. So, that’s a Justice issue and dispute between two different royal families (one of the two has mysteriously died out, with the last surviving member dying during the earlier part of the late Queen’s 70 year reign) that needs to go before God’s court (appropriate when talking about divine appointment, royalty and monarchy).

Interest in clans, for some Scots, is about family history, about understanding and celebrating cultural heritage, including languages, literature, music and storytelling traditions - as for any other cultural or ethnic group. Because some Scots ie. civic Scots are also ethnic Scots.

Yep exactly that. It's like a competition of who had it bad all them years ago when none of us were even there.

Correct.

The French gave the Vikings land in what's now Normandy in order to dissuade them from wanting to take over the whole of France.

This meant the now Normans looked at England and decided they wanted that. Then Wales. And even the island of Ireland.

In all cases, the Normans went native, so to speak.

The Kohinoor every Indian and his dog is laying claim to it now. The Elgin marbles on the other hand just return them fgs

Spanish armada washed up in Wales and Ireland they too were assimilated into the population

One of the reasons why I don't believe the Celts just moved West. I suspect they intermarriaged with the Anglo Saxon and we are a mix.

In terms of DNA, the armada was irrelevant.

But people did move from northern Spain to the island of Ireland. In fact, the oldest human remains anywhere on the island of Ireland is in Antrim, Northern Ireland. DNA testing revealed she came from the Middle East originally with her people and brought farming with them. They travelled through the Mediterranean around the Iberian Penninsula and on towards the Island of Ireland by boat along the coast before settling in Antrim. It would have been heavy forest then just like Great Britain was.

Weird how two different issues (an Indian crown jewel and Greek Parthenon temple marbles) get conjoined as one, isn’t it?!

Point about Kohinoor is that it would be deeply unwise for Camilla to wear it given the troubling history and possibility of a scary curse.

Yes, let’s not forget the curse of the kohinoor diamond… the royal family adhere to the part of the curse that says ‘Only God or a woman can wear it with impunity’, so they only give the legendary gem to a senior woman in the family. But what if God got there first?! Ha!

Quite a few of the Scottish Clans have their roots in Ulster. More specifically, Northern Ireland.

Yet quite a few try to deny this fact. Many of their ancestors moved back to Ulster at different times over the last few centuries.

More importantly, we all have DNA links with all five countries in the British Isles. As does the Royal Family themselves.

This

A few generations back a ggg grandfather was a Scottish smuggler firth of forth. They'd nipped over to France for brandy etc. This time he brought back a young woman. Well her father had a faster boat and was waiting for them both with a priest who married them. 😉

DNA analysis has now proved there wasn't a single Celtic people and that none of us are actually genetically Celts.ghe idea we were was a misunderstanding in the 19th Century by a Welsh man which is still around today as a mistaken belief .

Ancient writers didn't refer to us as being Celtic.

I remember talking to an elderly Ulster lady who ended up in Scotland when the Irish herring failed one year so they set off to Scotland to barrel up the herring there. She met a Scotsman fell in love and married him. It was a lovely story

@Upthebracket22
funny how the Welsh didn’t think about all this oppression when they sided with the English on Brexit voting, thus shafting the Northern Irish!

No sympathy here

We Welsh can moan and wring our hands, what happened to the Irish was so much worse between the church and the aristocracy they suffered so much more.

We had chapel banning booze and promising eternal damnation was their worst threat.

It's like a bragging contest between us the Irish and Scots sigh. Well IMO Ireland trumps the others

@justasking111 Those are great stories!

This!
Omfg this!!

I am so sick of the nationalistic bullshit!

Each season the herring fisheries migrated from Shetland down the east coast to East Anglia and the workforce migrated with it.

100% agree.

I have asked Stravaig what she/he/ they means by our citizenship requirement.

And in fact who is this "our" anyway?

Some people buy titles rather than being born into them.

So I wouldn't be so quick to think it wouldn't be a incentive :)

Also agree with people having British on their passport.

I am not English, I am British and happen to live in England.