To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

So you are agreeing with me that they are predominantly English and German then?

not my prince
not now
not ever
and no I'm not from Gwynedd (is that meant to be an insult)
Plenty of welsh people don't want this bollocks for a myriad of reasons

I happy to be corrected if I got it wrong.
The Norman invaders in 1066 were in fact Vikings who had previously invaded France and then "gone native" - started speaking French.
After invading England next it took them just few centuries until "going native" again - deigning to use the language of the local peasants.

There are plenty of ptoposed fracking sotes in the South East in Surrey, Sussex and Hampshire and they are hotly contested. The annoucement that we'd all have to put up with fracking as part of this energy bill was not well recieved here is Surrey.

I think westminster is run for the benefit of the wealthy and big business, rather than any specific region. Its not really for the people.

Never mind not being born in Sussex, the Duchess of Sussex has apparently spent a combined total of 6 hours in Sussex 🤣🤣🤣

Its only of interest to me in this context as we are discussing the "Prince of Wales" and this is the point of the thread, whether we should have William as Prince of Wales. He doesn't really seem very Welsh and the historical aspecst of how the Royal Family came to be using the title are... unfortunate.

Didn't they send Charles to Aberystwyth once for about a week?
I thought also William was doing helicopter rescues in Wales at one point?

Well, there you go, that's a grand connection to Wales, isn't it.

And that Brexit-favouring majority was slewed by a large tranche of voters who had recently moved to Wales from England, bringing their jingoism with them

Utter nonsense. The nasty nationalism on here is a sight to behold. If it was English* people posting this nonsense, MN would delete it.

*not that I actually know what "English" means, as we're all such a mixture in these isles.

I am glad that you started this thread OP as it has jolted my memory and made me realise why I am not a royalist.
POW invested in 1969. I was a grammar school student then and all the rhetoric at school and at home was how wonderful this occasion was, how lucky we were to have Charles as OUR prince.
My mother worked as a housemaid in London during the 1930s and was there when the Edward VIII became King and the abdicated. She waited outside Buckingham Palace on many occasions and adored the Royal Family.

When the Prince toured Wales my school were marched up to the road through our part of the Welsh Valleys and we lined the street. We stood there for hours, certainly over 3 hours.

A black limousine passed by in an escort of police and other officials. A fleeting glimpse of a hand waving and that was it.

What a letdown. No-one had asked me or anyone else if we wanted to be there, it was our duty. It was totally pointless. That was the day I began to question the monarchy, the class system etc etc. I have never celebrated a Royal event, oh I lie, we had a street party for Charles’s marriage to Diana as my children were just the age to enjoy it and I had great neighbours. Call me hypocritical 🤷‍♀️.

A pp said that the royal family feels totally irrelevant to them and I agree. There needs to be a real, hard look at all of the UK and the relationship with the monarchy in future. Obviously feelings are running high at the moment but we live in a very different society and all things change.

I think when someone lives somewhere for a few years and saves local lives as part of his job, that does give him a connection to that place.

Anyway, you can always lobby him to give George a different title when the time comes. Assuming we even still have a monarchy by then.

Not a massive keen on the monarchy, but on the other hand I think democracy is overrated since the Brexit vote. There are upsides and downsides.

To be clear for anyone wandering in mid-conversation -

If you live in Scotland you're a Scot. That's the entirety of our citizenship requirement. Hybrid identities are commonplace, so ethnicity/faith/dual nationality hyphen Scot.

It's a very English approach to steer the conversation to birthplace and bloodlines.

While we're at it, who is Princess Michael of Kent? Why is her name Michael and does she live in Kent?

But he's an actor talking about a bloody football team. Max sings about rugby but never pretends to be a politician. Anyone who thinks Michael sheen should run Wales is an egg short of a Welsh cake

I know. So tedious.

I remember a time when it was an embarrassing thing to think of oneself as a victim. Now it seems people actively want to be one!

She has never lived in Kent 😊
Plus - and this is going to horrify some people on here....she was born in what was then part of Greater Germany! (Now the Czech Republic)

I am pro Welsh independence but not anti English. My English DH thinks Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and Cornwall should form a Celtic Federation

Not sure about that. Why so much emphasis on Clans etc then. Think it is UK wide thing.

Did York actually take the title away from Andrew, or did he just disassociate himself?

They could make Wilson the Prince of Kensington. Harry is the Prince Of Bel Air. All sorted.

What "citizenship requirement" are you talking about?

I live in Scotland. I'm British.

😉😂

Oh good point about clans.

That was a rather telling comment from Stravaig- anything she/he/ they disapproves of must be English based.

Strawman Argument.

For something to be a fact, there must be independent corroboration of it in order to be one.

Hence, I debunked the OPs claim "Wales is the poorest part of Europe" with facts based on Eurostat. See attached.

In regards to you, I ably demonstrated facts which is possible to see within legislation. For example, @KnotKnot claimed Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all ruled from and by England. But the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Acts respectively debunks this.

You have continued to fail to support your assertions with evidence. Therefore, they don't pass the sniff test to become facts.

This post of yours is an example of circular reasoning as well like the others.

To be clear

• William doesn't live in Wales and doesn't appear to be claiming to be Welsh
• people who live in Wales or otherwise see themselves as Welsh - why not is my view
• But having William as a Prince of Wales - just why? given the history

Because our population is small in Wales ditto Scotland and Ireland I'll agree we're more clannish.