To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Yes, could have Berlin in London, Hertfordshire or an ambulance somewhere in either. Not in Scotland though.

Welsh Twitter is on fire today (for obvious reasons).

*been in (not Berlin).

I was wondering why the Queen Mother was born in Berlin!

Well, I say this as someone who was a Remainer but that's hardly an endorsement of the billions of EU funding given to Wales being used wisely

Why is the POW called the POW and not the Prince of Britain?
Or even the Prince of Wales and England as surely he’s the Prince of England too?

I apologise for my stupidity I am not clued up on the RF much at all.

So what? Are you saying to be Scottish she had to be born in Scotland?

The OP is not a representative of Wales, the voice of the Welsh or her opinions those of the majority of the Welsh Population.

You do not speak for me Op. Please stop using 'we' and use the correct 'I' instead.

From Gwynedd by any chance OP?

Well your generous acceptance of Sunak as British proves my point.

You're happy (I'm happy too) to acknowledge that Sunak is British but yet the Royal Family are "Anglo- German" despite none of them for many generations having been born or lived in Germany.

Wow I had no idea of this history.

I do feel that the royal family needs to start getting with the times as it seems they’re slowly becoming obsolete and less popular.

I think the queen is the last really respected monarch and will be interesting to see how Charles does.

things like being more inclusive and as you’ve pointed out removing the prince of wales title or even giving the Scottish people the choice could make them more popular.

Exactly this. There's a lot of chauvinism on here.

That's a fair point but you also don't speak for all of Wales! I think it may be polarised thatn you believe. Plenty of people do feel like the OP and not all from Gwynedd!

I am so sick of the "English = bad" narrative.

No one is excusing things that have gone on in the past. Lots of countries did terrible shit in the past. No one decent wants to defend it, or repeat it. Those were different times. Different moral standards. No one today thinks it was OK - but some of these things being brought up are literally centuries ago and have absolutely no relevance to modern life.

We are the only nation that isn't allowed to have any national pride without being slated for a colonial past, for being racist and so on if we mention being English. And just for complete clarity, Tommy Robinson is a racist cunt, I don't support Britain First. I'm not even a Brexiteer.

We are where we are. Other nations have done terrible stuff but they're not constantly beaten with it. We've had some terrible stuff done to us too, but we don't keep banging on about it and using it to claim victimhood.

As PP have pointed out, the OP only tells half the story. The Welsh didn't act honourably either - but there again, it was the 14th century. Lots of people were being shit bags.

No doubt if the role of Prince of Wales wasn't given, that would be wrong too.

I fall into lots of minority groups for various different reasons so I'm not someone who has the luxury of complete privilege or entitlement. I experience prejudice in many ways. But the absolute kicking I see constantly for daring to be English is so fucking wearing.

We all have enough shit to be worried about collectively, including the future of our planet, without bringing up ridiculous feudal battles from hundreds of years ago.

I don’t understand how Wales having an English prince imposed upon them is worse than all of the British having a new king imposed upon us. Are you really happy to have an unelected, undemocratic, hereditary monarch to rule over you, as long as they share your heritage??

Have a referendum then. If Wales wants to check out, be independent and renounce the monarchy, then good on you, but if that's the case the rest of the UK should have a referendum allowing us to not financially support you. I live in Sussex but I'm putting up with the muppets worst members of the RF (except Andrew) being granted the titles of Duke and Duchess. It could be worse.

Given that neither she, nor her father, grandfather, or great grandfather were born in Scotland but inherited a Scottish title from Scottish ancestors, what makes her Scottish rather than of Scottish ancestry?

@Yddraig25 what in my post suggests I speak for Wales?

I haven't given my opinion just pointed out that the OP doesn't speak for the Nation.

Or would you prefer it in Welsh as you didn't understand it in English?

So bloodlines are all that matter and where you live and are born don’t affect your heritage or nationality?

In which case the Queen was half Scottish (though her father and his father and mother were all born in Britain but some reason can’t not be German.)

Charles - let’s go with 75% German heritage (though Philip was actually born in Greece to the Greek royal family who were an offshoot of the Danish royal family) and 25% Scottish.

William is half English and 3/8 German heritage 1/8 Scottish.

George is predominantly English with a smidge of Scottish heritage and a little more German.

But yes absolutely - predominantly German

The question isn't whether or not we should have a Prince of Wales. It's whether we should have a monarchy, or indeed a united "kingdom".

If we persist with the monarchy, and with the UK, then surely it's right that Wales is acknowledged within one of the most important titles? I know that the history is dark, but most of history is dark! Back in those days, I doubt the monarch would be pledging a lifetime of service to the people - all the power dynamics were completely different.

We either accept that the modern royal family is not directly responsible for the last however many centuries of history, and we find a way to move forward. Or we scrap them.

And the Tory government is about to do this again with Fracking. Despite the acknowledged risks to local infrastructure (acknowledged by all but the drilling companies themselves) our lovely Westminster government think the, largely Northern, regions should suck it up for the greater good. The devolved nations aren't the only ones constantly screwed over by The Government for the South East.

This is an often misrepresented reading of the Brexit vote. Areas of high immigration tended to vote Remain, not Leave. (Most of London, for example). Fear of immigration drove Brexit. People who experience migration are more likely to embrace it.

😂😂😂

Yet the region of Wales which voted leave the strongest was Blaenau Gwent. You're not seriously telling me that Tredegar is a go-to destination for English retirees? Things must be bad in England...

The strongest Remain vote in Wales was in Cardiff, which as the capital city is much more cosmopolitan and will have a larger number of English-born residents than many other parts of Wales. Monmouthshire likewise voted to remain and that's just as much a border county as Wrexham, and in language terms much less Welsh than Powys. Why does that professor blame Wrexham and Powys' leave votes on "English settlers" but make no mention of Monmouthshire?

In Scotland, every county voted to remain, in Wales three quarters of them voted to leave.

Ffs - you could rake through history and find some horrendous affront has taken place pretty much anywhere. The 1200s were hardly the pinnacle of human rights, let's face it. Should Northern England go independent because of the harrying of the North? I'm sure some hideous things happened at some point to some aristocrat types in what is now the Cambridge area - shall we then ban the title 'Duke of Cambridge." The Battle Of Hastings was in Sussex - let's ban the title "Duke of Sussex" to put past wrongs right. Don't get me started on " The Duke of Edinburgh." Let's ban them all!