To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

The "Anglo" bit means "English" you know.

I'm not saying they're not English. The opposite in fact.

I'm saying they're not particularly Welsh, especially when it comes to being Prince of Wales, especially given the history.

German as opposed to being Welsh and a Prince of Wales.

Nothing wrong with being German per se.

all people who have attained their position through merit and/ or democratic process and not an accident of birth and a history of violent conquest by their ancestors...

@everywoman682 because it's a very personal feeling. You may not feel that, but I and many others do. I'm very proud to be from Wales, and its language and culture it's part of who I am but it doesn't make me insular or less of a global citizen.

It’s back to how do you define nationality, isn’t it? How many generations do you need to go back to make your claim?

Elizabeth B-L wasn’t born in Scotland, her mother’s family weren’t Scottish, and her grandfather and great grandfather were born on the family estate in Hertfordshire (as was E B-L).

They inherited a Scottish title and lands, does that make them Scottish or of Scottish ancestry?

Right, so Emma Weymouth shouldn't be Marchioness of Bath because she's half Nigerian?

Wales is the poorest country in Europe.

Now you're being offensively ridiculous OP. Wales is most definitely NOT the poorest country in Europe.

I'm Welsh, and I don't find it offensive. I think it's a good thing that the title is still in existence. It's what makes us different from any other country. I'm proud to be Welsh, I'm not a Welsh speaker, I wish I could speak Welsh. The Scottish could say the same because the Prince Of Wales, Prince William also inherits Scottish titles.

I expect there are lots of people who do think they are not British.
The kind of cave dwelling people I am thinking of will not entertain the thought of anyone non-white being British. Ever.

yup actually I'm with you

I don't think there was an official record of the Queen Mother's birth, so they couldn't actually say where she was born.

Not as a country maybe - but areas of Wales are, which is why it was in reciept of so much EU funding.

https://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing433UKregionsspoorestNorthh_Europe.pdf

The location of Elizabeth's birth remains uncertain, but reputedly she was born either in her parents' Westminster home at Belgrave Mansions, Grosvenor Gardens, or in a horse-drawn ambulance on the way to a hospital.[8] Other possible locations include Forbes House in Ham, London, the home of her maternal grandmother, Louisa Scott.[9] Her birth was registered at Hitchin, Hertfordshire,[10] near the Strathmores' English country house, St Paul's Walden Bury, which was also given as her birthplace in the census the following year.[11] She was christened there on 23 September 1900, in the local parish church, All Saints.

She isn't claiming to have a royal entitlement to Bath because of a link with ancestors 4 centuries ago . Also, the citizens of Bath do not have an ancient sense of loss around the behaviour of said ancestors.

So its a poor comparison.

It is quite cool to have a part Nigerian Marchioness, in fact.

You're missing the point. The sort of people who wouldn't dream of saying Sunak etc aren't British are often the same people who insist the Royal Family is German.

I've a friend who's been working tirelessly in Roumania and Albania for two decades for the British government and would agree.

Ukraine and Moldova as well I guess plus some of the Balkans

Well take this up with the senedd who've done sod all to encourage industry for the 22 years they've been running the place

Fwiw op, I agree with much of what you’re sayIng.
I think the monarchy should be abolished, but I’ve got to say that in my experience of Wales and the Welsh people (I live near the border) I don’t think there’s a big push for independence, and very much anti monarchy feeling at all!
On the contrary,
I have found Wales and the Welsh pretty conservative on the whole, and very much wanting to keep the status quo.
wales also voted for Brexit. That has to be one of the most spectacularly stupid and short sighted decisions ever!!

@DownNative you stating something is a fact does not make it so....

It's appalling isn't it?

Anglo German. Which is a pretty accurate description of the Royals' ancestry. (they can also be described as British by nationality of course).

But they are not particularly Welsh.

Very happy to describe Sunak as British.

Hope that helps.

Sorry meant to reply to poster about Northumberland. No agreeing with the oP at all

I bloomin love it! She's an aristocrat and a landowner, not completely British! I applaud that but obviously some people think there should only be "English blood" - which I dispute.

@Upthebracket22 Martin Sheen via Twitter this morning 😍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿