To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Think you will be disappointed.

I'm welsh and I don't really care about this, it's not like william is going to be our new ruler and have any substantial influence over wales

It's just a pointless title, not worth getting worked up over imo

Thanks- have ordered one for me and one for my Dad for Christmas!

Britain comes from the ancient Welsh Pritain.

British from Pritish.

The Welsh are the most ancient of British people and also across the entire British Isles.

Passport states "Nationality British".

Interesting all the people saying they loathe nationalism - when it suits them. I bet they're all proud of being English.

Not particularly. I don't like nationalism and am not that proud to be British. Not ashamed either, I view it more as just a neutral fact about me.
And I do consider myself British rather than anything else. I have a Welsh mum, and a half Scottish/half English dad.

They're of predominantly English and German heritage.

So, Anglo German

This thread just confirms the ignorance and arrogance of many English people. Welsh, Scottish and Irish history should be mandatory in English schools.

I don't blame people for wanting independence.
It's getting it approved by parliament that is the sticking point.

Why do you use "we"? Are you claiming to speak for all of Wales? Polling last year would suggest that most of Wales disagrees with you and does want to see Prince William become Prince of Wales.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/investiture-prince-william-charles-wales-21115635

During covid we were given a lot of money to help us out in Wales. The Welsh government haven't handed it out but built up a considerable treasure chest. I'm watching and waiting to see how it's dispersed. Pre the senedd we had the Welsh development agency who would woo overseas investors by buying up land so that industries could be created and thus jobs. They were disbanded absorbed by the new senedd The present Welsh government are buying up land again. One far for 4.5 million to run a green Man festival annually. They bought Cardiff airport another ongoing money pit. They're Also buying up land to plant trees. Pine types that acidise our soil. Not a mixed bag of diverse woodland. Overseas investors are rubbing their hands at this grant aided windfall. Will it create real jobs well nope. Our Welsh farmers are lobbying without success

So no the senedd have to prove they can create wealth, run a health system and a good education system before they'll get my vote. There's only 4 million of us here. 48% work in the public sector. We should be better placed than we are

As i thought, you'd prefer to ignore the Royal Family's ancestral links right across the British Isles in order to focus on England and Germany.

Anglo-German is not factually correct since they do have Irish and Scottish ancestry too. They have Wejsh ancestry too as a genealogist showed.

Well, I guess if that is what people want. It would have been rather more satisfactory to have a consultation though.

At what point do you decide that someone is actually English/ Welsh/British/German/whatever? How many generations of ancestors have to be born in a country before you are accepted as being of that country. Is being born in a country enough? (If so, my DH is Welsh because he was born in Llandrindod Wells, but only because the road to Hereford was blocked by snow)

The late Queen Elizabeth was often called 'German' but was actually only 7/16 German, ½ Scottish and 1/16 Danish. (Her great-grandmother, Queen Alexandra was half Danish, half German)

Charles is actually slightly more German than his mother: ¼ Scottish, 19/32 German, 5/32 Danish (through Phillip, who wasn't actually Greek by descent at all, as his grandfather was ½ Danish, ½ German and elected King of the Hellenes (Greeks) in 1863)

William is ½ English, 19/64 German, 1/8 Scottish and 5/64 Danish

George is ¾ English, 19/128 German, 1/16 Scottish and 5/128 Danish.

(This is taking each ancestors nationality as where they were born and going back to great-great grandparents)

I consider myself to be British (Scottish with a bit of French although never lived in France) but I'm the same. I'm not proud as such to be British but I'm certainly not ashamed of it. It's a neutral, legal fact and there are a helluva lot worse legal nationalities available and not many I'd want to swap it for.

predominantly Anglo German is factually correct

Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon had Scottish ancestry, but it’s a stretch to call her Scottish - you’d have to go back to her great great grandfather for a direct ancestor born in Scotland.

You do realise that a lot of people in the UK have ancestral links to all parts of the British Isles and further afield.

I am related to William the Conqueror. And Queen Elizabeth I. You probably are as well.

You just need to go back up the family tree far enough.

So what? I mean really so what? The Bowes-Lyon family were an aristocratic Scottish family.

I bet the posters who are so determined the Royal Family are German, not English or British, who would not dream of arguing any other immigrant wasn't English or British.

My nain (grandmother) used to say we were a nation of dispossessed princes.

She was in a sense right.

If we go far enough back, we would likely find that many Welsh people were - very distantly - related to Owain Glyndwr and Llewelyn. The more degrees of separation, the more distantly related people there would be...

Actually I don't think they teach enough English history in English schools so I would prioritise that. I also think many Scots, Welsh and Irishh are ignorant of ours. It works both ways.

Exactly. No-one would question whether Kemi Badenoch or Rishi Sunak are British, or whether John Sentamu should be an archbishop.

Are the other immigrants staging a claim to be princes of the realm?

I'm very laid back about immigration in general...

'But being proud of where you're born and your heritage and culture doesn't mean your not a global citizen. I enjoy nothing more than travelling meeting mew people to learn about different countries and cultures. But I still want my country and language to thrive and be recognised in its own right - its not being obsessed it's a feeling of belonging.'

No, I really don't identify with that either. Why would I be proud of where I happened to be born? There are many things in life to be proud of, but the random chance of where one is born or where their parents/grandparents/great grandparents ad infinitum were born, really isn't one of those things

Don't know what the beef with the Germans is. Hitler was Austrian for a start. The Normans built our castles and invaded. The Anglo Saxon people aka English suffered terribly too. Before that the Vikings Scandinavians gave us all a hard time, before that the romans. The UK as a whole was battered three times by nations that sailed in from other countries. Don't recall the German landings from history