To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

You could be a Welsh nationalist and still have a focussed conversation about how the "prince of Wales" title is a bit out-moded.

Just as you don't have to want full Welsh secession to agree re the POW title?

It’s not their title to bestow

But that’s the point, it is!

The Mountbattens, remember, changed their name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha after the War

Battenberg. Not Saxe Coburg Gotha, that was the royal family.

I have to say, I haven't read the entire thread (what with life being too short) but some people's ability to make an historic (for us) and personal ( for the RF) event all about them and their grievances never ceases to amaze.

The poor Welsh with their privately owned water company with no shareholders that reinvests all of its profits for the benefit of its customers

Where do you think the £2 billion annual profits of the English water companies go? (Hint - it’s not reinvested for the benefit of customers).

Are you really trying to suggest Anglophobia doesn't exist in Scotland and isn't at least one of the motivations for independence? 🤔

Yet the Welsh culture has survived and with help/funding from the UK government in the last few decades has quite rightly thrived. Many other Celtic cultures simply do not exist anymore. All peoples have suffered throughout history.

sorry

"In 1947, Princess Elizabeth (who would become Queen Elizabeth II), heir presumptive to King George VI, married Philip Mountbatten (born Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark), a member of the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, a branch of the House of Oldenburg. A few months before his marriage, Philip abandoned his princely titles and adopted the surname Mountbatten, which was that of his uncle and mentor, the Earl Mountbatten of Burma, and had itself been adopted by Lord Mountbatten's father (Philip's maternal grandfather), Prince Louis of Battenberg, in 1917. It is the literal translation of the German Battenberg, which refers to Battenberg, a small town in Hesse.

Soon after Elizabeth became Queen in 1952, Lord Mountbatten observed that because it was the standard practice for the wife in a marriage to adopt her husband's surname, the House of Mountbatten now reigned. When Elizabeth's grandmother, Queen Mary, heard of this comment, she informed British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and he later advised the Queen to issue a royal proclamation declaring that the royal house was to remain known as the House of Windsor. This she did on 9 April 1952, officially declaring it her "Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor."[8] Philip privately complained, "I am nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his own children."[9]

On 8 February 1960, some years after both the death of Queen Mary and the resignation of Churchill, the Queen confirmed that she and her children would continue to be known as the "House and Family of Windsor", as would any agnatic descendants who enjoy the style of Royal Highness and the title of prince or princess.[8] Still, Elizabeth also decreed that her agnatic descendants who do not have that style and title would bear the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.[8]"

They've been trying to do it underhandedly subtly, but failing.

Culldesack is a wonderfully apt username for a rampant unionist.
All Hail the Glorious English Empire!

Personally, I awknowledge that I am a British Citizen and that I hold a British Passport but as far as my nationality, identity and how I describe myself it's Welsh - never British as I don't feel British. It very personal to each indivudual.

Growing up in West Wales a lot of what I assosiate with being British feels alien to me, e.g Union Jack waving, God Save the Queen/King

As far as form filling sometime you have no option but to put British but if I do then I put Welsh. As for the Census they have a specific question so as to measure peoples views.

I certainly don't speak for all Welsh people in fact I think the majority count themselves British and Welsh in Wales.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain As I said before, there was no need to decide about the Wales title yesterday. William has lots of other titles he hasn't earned to be getting on with, they could have waited a month or 2.

Or maybe that was the idea, to give it to him before people had a chance to protest?

No, you made a broad sweeping generalisation within this thread. Now, you shift the goalposts!

So...demonstrate your evidence and I don't mean with anecdotes which would be another logical fallacy. 🤔

Very good post. 👍

@DownNative anglophobia is not the driving factor no, despite what MSM tries to portray.

But do we have idiots that feel like that yes, but no country is free from that. I have been verbally abused (and more) plenty of times when visiting England for simply being Scottish but I do not feel those people define a whole nation.

Well they didn’t as another poster says. However does a surname mean a person bearing that name can never become a new nationality? That’s an unpleasant view and one I doubt you would ascribe to anyone other than the Royal Family.

Ie Rishi Sunak, born in the UK but Indian under your rules or Kwasi Kwarteng, Ghanaian despite being born in London. Whereas both are actually British.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%B5r_Cymru_Welsh_Water

Dwr cymru Welsh water is not privately owned no-one sold it off.

Your history is as dodgy this morning as it was last night

Whereas your username is about aimlessness and rambling. More than apt, I would say.

I feel much the same way tbh. We don't even warrant an inclusion on the flag of the United Kingdom. There is no need to tell me why, I know the history but there has been plenty of time to change that to reflect current times.

I wish the title had been left in abeyance. I also think it was rushed through to avoid any lobbying.

The Welsh abuse each other for not being true blooded Welsh. North v south East v West. All because of variant dialects.

I'm Welsh born and bred.
I'm delighted William is to become the new Prince of Wales. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 🇬🇧

^ This. You have a huge chip on your shoulder. Move on.

I did wonder how the people of Wales felt about that while I watched the speech yesterday. I didn’t know that history. Very interesting

What a sweeping statement. @justasking111 . I have friends from all over Wales and have never had this argument - apart from gentle ribbing regarding some different words we have for the same thing.

Cobblers! As an Ulster Unionist in Scotland, I have observed a lot of anglophobia in Scotland.

It's especially common in the Central Belt where most people in Scotland live. When Braveheart premiered years ago, there was a rise in Anglophobia in Scotland. IIRC, I think it was Devine who elaborated on that in one of his books I used to own years ago.

It was Braveheart's ahistorical Anglophobia that began the drive for modern Scottish Nationalism.

There's the Anglophobia in ABE = Anyone But England.

There's blaming the No vote on the English too.

And this....

I always laugh when either Welsh, Scottish or even Irish people carry on about English suppression.
I, as a Black woman with an extended and close family with no members with white partners in all the generations going back to the 19th century do wonder why we are a family mainly from Jamaica, with people from the Anglo/Patois speaking side of Panama ( descendants of Jamaicans who helped to build the Panama Canal who stayed in Panama) and members of the American Descendants Of Slaves ADOS ethnicity who have married into the family , have so many Welsh, Irish and Scottish surnames, when we have many members of my family who, despite having slave ancestry have not one DROP of European in them as is the stereotype of all Black people, even if as dark as chocolate for generations, if they are descendants of the Industrialised Atlantic Slave Trade.

Williams, Griffiths, Lloyd, Farquharson, Brown, Mckoy, Macanuff, Weir, O'Donnell, Morrison, Sutherland, Evans, Mcdonald.....I know these names don't come from any tribe in West Africa, so I wonder where we got these names as they seem to come from people who complain about English suppression, but amongst whom went ten toes deep into suppressing people who did not look like them and without whom, their "suppressed" countries would be far worse of then they complain about due to the English?

Keep it cute, now and try and imagine that many people laugh and put you in with the English when you complain about "English Suppresion" when really, one family of scallies beat up three families of scallies, but scallies they ALL remain.

I am quite sure that ADOS people can have a LOT to say about the Irish/Scots/Welsh tribe in The Southern U.S states and their "lovely" behaviour once they got from under the yoke of the English and went to the New World and had Black people to look down upon and enslave and terrorise. How come so many Black U.S people have the surname "Kelly"? Is that English?

And the racist "hibernianisation" of police forces up and down the East Coast, with Irish and Irish descendants , going ten toes deep to be seen as white by WASPS used Black and POC ( including the Italians who also had to work to get into the white tribe that they were always racially a part of) people as their beating sticks and the Welsh coal miner bosses being cruel against people who looked like them in the state of Pennsylvania where one cannot go about without seeing places named in Welsh and wondering why.

England, Scotland, Wales AND Ireland. None of ya slates are clean. When you decide to turn scally, just remember to go as scally as the English is the lesson I have learned here. You gotts take emotion right out of it and have hypocrisy as your compass. Nobody does Hypocrisy as well as the generationally Middle class English person. Learn that.

However, Scally you ALL are. Join hands....you have far more in common than not! Lol! Just be aware that cries of oppression and suppression are very subjective when it comes to Welsh, Scottish and Irish. Your ancestral compatriots knew a good thing by joining onto English Oppression Syndrome when it came to Black people.