To think skin colour matters WAY more than people like to admit

[daysayso]

I am involved in marketing campaigns - I won't say what because it's outing but let's say I recently worked on a campaign where the service being provided had absolutely nothing to do with race (so it wasn't makeup or hair for example).

Yet the vast majority that responded were people of colour (Same as the person featured in the ad) and it made me think how much your life chances are still dictated by your skin colour.

People like to consider race more than they like to admit even in spaces where it has nothing to do with anything, people just seem to feel more 'comfortable' with their own.

I felt for the first time in a long time my success will in part depend on my skin colour because for whatever reason the majority of white people that saw this ad decided it wasn't for them on the basis I'm someone of colour.

Please no arguments I'm looking for a mature conversation and if you find the topic sensitive you need not respond

Just looking for others experiences really

Just to add that class prejudice definitely hasn't died out in this country. No disrespect to the queen personally but class is why one 96 year old woman died in one of her many homes, having received the best healthcare money can buy and other 96 year olds died on trolleys having waited in hospital A&E for 13 hours!

It's hard to appreciate if your colour has never determined life choices / wants / needs . . . I think you really have to spell it out for some people.

Hahahaha I'm sorry is this a joke or just intentionally offensive ?
People love who they love, if they are of another race then so be it. You don't have mixed children to embrace black culture. So do Black people do it to embrace white culture.?

@Diverseopinions I don’t believe for a second you have black friends. Especially not for a length of time. You would be exhausting. You absolutely will not listen. When you are told, by those who know, you deflect & belittle. I want friends not projects. I don’t have either the time nor the inclination to befriend white people who need tips on how to be anti racist. That’s not my Cross to bear.

Not a single person has said anything even close to all white people being morally inferior or impossible to befriend. You’re making it up as you go along.

So far you have suggested having a mixed raced baby is a good way to ‘play the part’(of a non racist I assume) & that we should all just get up in the morning, make a black or white friend, & start afresh. I can’t tell you how offensive& patronising that all is but yet I am rude.

Yes. Race matters in absolutely everything. Race can literally be the difference between you getting a job or not getting a job. It can even mean the difference between you living or dying. It matters enormously. More than any qualification. Your race can determine so much before you've even started. It's terrible but there we go. People will however bang on about how they don't see race and how egalitarian they are. I'd even go so far as to say that wanting racial equality is not something many people actually want.

Well, yeah work white people love to moan about it, but are you seriously saying no black or Indian person has complained about the British Empire? I've defo seen a few on here.

If you come from, or your family originates from, a country in the top ten for modern slavery today I think it's a bit rich to expect British people to grovel about what their ancestors did. Unless of course you are extending a similar apology, which generally isn't the case, IME.

DaydreamsinSantaFe

You have misread and misunderstood what I said. I expressed that I believe actions speak louder than words. Someone who has entered into a marriage with a person of a different ethnicity is clearly embracing that other person's culture - and therefore is not a racist. An actual life choice speaks volumes. Anyone can spout anti-racist rhetoric, but to live the life counts for something.

When I said taking a part, there was no intention to suggest acting or pretending. I meant living a life. My meaning was choosing a role in life. Taking a part doesn't always denote putting on an act: taking a part or choosing a role can refer to life choices: the expressions don't have to mean dissembling.

You seem to have introduced an element of cause and effect which wasn't in my post. A person has a mixed race child because they want to have a child and are with someone of a different race. I didn't say they do it because they want to come across a particular way.

If one doesn't believe that white privilege can die out, over time, like class prejudice has died out, then one obviously thinks that putting people down and oppressing others is intrinsically part of being white - and it will never change. White privilege seems to be treated like a static thing - from what I can learn from this thread. If the argument goes that white privilege still exists due to the fact that white people want to perpetuate it, then that is tantamount to saying white people are morally inferior.

I don't think making a new friend is starting afresh, but thinking we are all the same and all members of the human race is indeed making an explicit rejection of historic stereotyping and prejudice.

VladamirsPoutine

In the UK, there are a raft of laws in place to protect the principle of racial equality. Whether people want racial equality or not cannot alter those protections.

VladamirsPoutine

I don't know who you are thinking of when you say you'd go as far as to say that not many people want racial equality, but that really is to insult a whole group of people and to imply that they are morally inferior.

We have an education system and a series of legislations designed to mould the minds and instill an understanding of equality in successive generations, so anyone who, in spite of that, still doesn't want racial equality, really would be morally inferior and contemptible.

And there you go again with your wayward poke about modern slavery. If you really can't understand the difference between then and now, there really is no point even discussing it.

No-one is actually expecting British people to grovel (although I stand corrected if any poster here has actually asked you to grovel). I've no idea where you're getting that from. But it sounds like even thinking about your ancestors is making you hyper sensitive.

@Diverseopinions Is this another way of saying exactly what you said before?
You’ve been told, by people who know, that having a black spouse, child or friend does not mean you aren’t racist. You keep saying it does.
I am mixed raced, my mother is racist. Even if you only take this one account as fact you cannot make that same claim again. So for the record, stop saying that. It’s absolute rubbish & you need to stop finding new ways to say it.

You also keep saying there is no longer a class system. There absolutely is yet you repeatedly claim otherwise.

Your thought process is problematic & a glorious display of ignorance. A person who point blank refuses to listen could never be one who treats others equally and with respect.

*class prejudice. Although that also firmly exists.

It's because people's interest can be somewhat guessed based on all kinds of socio-cultural factors. Certain subjects, types of music, even types of cooking can have different demographics in terms of groups interested.

Youtube is trying to sell you what you like, and it has millions of people making choices every day. So what they offer you is what other people who like what you like have watched.

About a year ago I started to watch a music channel run by a black America bloke, he also does some stuff about politics and such. All of a sudden Youtube was offering me a ton of other black male Youtubers, who talked about similar political and cultural things. Depending on what I've been watching, sometimes it will go back to it, but if my husband gets on watching wilderness canoe trips, it stops, apparently that is not an overlapping demographic.

It's interesting to watch it in action.

There is no evidence unconscious bias training does bugger all to make people less biased.

Yes, people are very afraid of doing this.

I had to describe a customer the other day, the quickest way to identify him was "tall black man with an English accent (I am not in the UK.) I briefly wondered if people would object to that but then I decided it really didn't matter to me.

When it comes down to it when there are new words and acronyms so often, you are going to get a variety of words and not everyone will prefer the same one, and you won't always know or be able to ask. And I think people need to be comfortable with that.

But it would be nice if people could get away from the idea that changing the words is what's going to make a difference, because it won't, and it really does become another source of stress for people.

Ok I sort of agree but think the words should be chosen by ethnic minorities rather than imposed iyswim

How can you justify this opinion when you look at how different ethnicity in the same race fare differently, or how kids in a university educated well off black family do compared to kids in a poor, poorly educated white family? It seems pretty clear that even if race is a factor there are others that are likely to affect people more.

Yes, that's not a bad principle, but even on the thread you can see there is a lot of disagreement about what people prefer. And in some cases some people really hate what others prefer.

DaydreamsinSanteFe

The class system is dying out in this country. Having a regional accent or working class parents or grandparents wouldn't be a barrier to getting a senior job.

Of course, many life circumstances and experiences limit your ability to lead a fulfilling life: confidence issues can hamper you getting a job and fulfilling your hopes - these can be issues resulting from experiencing domestic abuse at a young age; age inappropriate responsibilities when young; mental or physical disability; poverty.

Who is to tell me that there isn't a class system? Someone who has experienced class discrimination, perhaps ? That would be everybody, on a social level, but laws ensure that jobs don't discriminate based on class.

I suppose that somebody who enters into an interracial marriage didn't think in a racially prejudiced way at that point in their life.

My restating of that view was singularly to express it clearly, so that the confusion over the language about acting a part and it not meaning play- acting out a part could be removed. I've already stated that the quote from a white mother spoken to her own child is obviously racist and upsetting to read about.

So, DayDreamsinSanteFe, do you know any white speakers or writers who have got it right? Or do you think that a person has to have experienced being non-white to be qualified to express an opinion on race?

. There is another thread on MN this evening about autism and LD. I wouldn't dream of telling a poster that they were ignorant and disablist, because I didn't think they understood autism as well as me - a mother of an adult with severe ASD. I actually think that although those with experience know best, the subjective feeling isn't everything.

As for the original post, I actually don't think anyone can throw light on why the majority of 3000 + respondents answered as they did. How can anyone surmise, when they don't know what the service was? How can anyone comment on why somebody looked at publicity material and didn't take up the offer? Only the people who saw it and did or didn't respond could do that.

unfortunately class does make a difference.

Thees a very interesting programme about how to break into the elite. It talks about a secret code that’s difficult to break into. Media roles full of elites, politics etc. It was very interesting and worth a watch.

@Diverseopinions I think it’s safe to say you’ll say anything to be right.
You aren’t & I don’t want to encourage you to dig this hole any deeper.

Rummikub

At the very, very top, yeah, class makes a difference, but seriously, at the level most people would be aiming for - headteacher/bank manager/TV executive - it doesn't make a great difference, relative to how things were 80 years ago. We've seen attitudes change.

It does make a difference. That’s part of the reason unis make contextual offers.

The higher up the hierarchy in an organisation the more homogenous it gets.

One of the things in the prog I mentioned states that interview panels hire people like them. It’s probably embedded deep in psyche to do so. Which is why.being aware of unconscious bias is important.

its not only ethnicity but sex, class, disability.