To think skin colour matters WAY more than people like to admit

[daysayso]

I am involved in marketing campaigns - I won't say what because it's outing but let's say I recently worked on a campaign where the service being provided had absolutely nothing to do with race (so it wasn't makeup or hair for example).

Yet the vast majority that responded were people of colour (Same as the person featured in the ad) and it made me think how much your life chances are still dictated by your skin colour.

People like to consider race more than they like to admit even in spaces where it has nothing to do with anything, people just seem to feel more 'comfortable' with their own.

I felt for the first time in a long time my success will in part depend on my skin colour because for whatever reason the majority of white people that saw this ad decided it wasn't for them on the basis I'm someone of colour.

Please no arguments I'm looking for a mature conversation and if you find the topic sensitive you need not respond

Just looking for others experiences really

Who is a bit rich for expecting the British to feel guilty?

I don't know anyone who's doing this. You yourself blamed woke white people so don't understand what you're on about.

This post is yet ANOTHER fake thread set up to divide and antagonise and it's getting old. It's the same old bollox.
Yes racism IS a real thing so create a real post about it. You could always call it "why are white people such arseholes" or something instead of just hoping someone will lead it that way. Which is what usually happens.

I thought it has been an interesting thread.

I’d agree algorithm’s are definitely partly (if not more) responsible for the people who saw the advert in the first place.

Why does this discussion make you so annoyed? If you actually read the thread you'll see im talking about all races because the ones responding positively were just as bad but no you decide to ignore that part didn't you

Part of the problem

As pp have mentioned if it was an on line campaign then algorithms might have limited who saw it.

It’s scary actually how much control we are handing over without realising it.

I remember first reading about self driving cars and how the coding didn’t recognise black and brown faces as people. It’s the coders that must check their unconscious bias and adjust programming.

A different example. Those finger oxygen monitors incorrectly overestimate the amount of oxygen for black and brown people so their treatment ends up being delayed. So if this is you in this position mention it to the doctor (your symptoms show low O2 but your numbers are ‘within range’. ) There is new guidance about it. Sorry for going off tangent but I have a thing about this now.

All good points @Rummikub

We definitely need better diversity training or more diverse workforces, especially in the areas you're talking about.

I also saw the oxygen sensor thing on the news and found it quite shocking. I'm an engineer and find it amazing how the team responsible for that product didn't consider the range of patients that it would be used on. However, this isn't uncommon. Cars are still designed by men, mostly for men. It's been shown that women fare worse in crashes for instance as often women can't find a seating position which is optimal.

I've been involved in outreach that targets women and minorities as many STEM fields are still white and male. It's sad but in my entire career I've only ever worked with 2 black engineers and not that many other minorities or women. Yet so much of our world is dependent on engineering.

@Lunar270

Completely agree. White male seems to be the default for a lot of design. I guess it makes it simpler for them. Even for drugs the female dosage is just a lower adjustment of male dosage. Rather than considering how female bodies are different ( different hormones etc)

I had seen a programme about crash test dummies being mainly based on the male height and weight.

It’s great that you are using your influence to change things/ make others aware.

Daysayso

You can't have a truly worthwhile discussion, if you don't know the evidence. I can take your word for it, sure, but it won't be an enlightening discussion, if you might have been impacted by your own unconscious assumptions about which services might carry what kind of connotations?

The OP proposes that people think about a range of issues which they can't really know the answer to, so people might as well know what you're talking about. I definitely believe that there are racist people in society. But how that is reflected in people turning down a brilliant product because they people in the advert are not white is a hard one to cogitate. It's like choosing not to buy dresses from Next online because the model in the picture isn't white? Really? Who would make such a daft choice? So I don't get why people would be as biased if you are talking about a non-complex service like installing a stair lift. Is the service more complex than that example?

Unless I know the service you mean, I can't imagine stuff. And to comment, I will have imagine, put myself in the audience's shoes. What was the sample size - 10 respondents? 3,000?

These are my views:

There are racist people in society. It would be possible to change this, just as, over the years, we have changed class discrimination. Political and educational initiatives can achieve this.

Not all white people are racist. It is possible to not show unconscious bias, on an individual level, if you set out to treat everyone the way you would like to be treated yourself.

It does count for something if you are white and have good friends who are not white. If you care for them and are sincere, I can't see how you can be racist.

If you are married to a person who is not white and you have mixed race children, then that choice means you are not racist.

It is possible to be white and on the receiving end of racism. If you wanted to marry a non-white person and their family put pressure on them to drop you because white people in their eyes are morally inferior, e.g. horrible or arseholes, then you are on the receiving end of racial prejudice, and you might welcome a forum which gives you a safe space to discuss your feelings with other white people who have been rejected by their love interest, based on their colour.

There are racist people in society - but that doesn't mean that all white people are racist, without being aware of it.

Modern day slavery is abhorrent and shocking. The statistics which have been printed on this thread are eye-opening and horrific. More campaigning needs to be done to change this.

The fact that racial atrocities were committed by people hundreds of years ago does not make me complicit in any of these acts. I don't think I would have condoned these atrocities if I had lived 200 years ago.

It is weird how little you know about delivery of advertising for someone in the industry though

Re the advertising thing, I'm on the fence with it.

On the one hand it's good to see representation but on the other, marketing is only there to serve the company and to ensure the maximum amount of money is prised from our fingertips!

I'm personally more interested in how TV, film and theatre is diversifying than marketing but that's just me and accept we can't have it all ways round.

What do you think OP should know more about? There are a thousand roles in advertising, OP can’t be expected to know everything.

This is a ridiculous comparison because the product and services your pointing out ARE made for those groups - the product I am referring to in my OP is relevant to all races! It is nothing to do with race!! At all - so your comparisons are not good

I was purely responding to the suggestion/observation (I can't remember now whether it was you or somebody else who made it) that advertisers will seek to use models/actors of the same demographic of the consumers whom they wish to target - and will thus expect a skewed amount of responses from people of that same demographic.

I can't remember ever seeing a very frail 85yo in one of these adverts, only ever somebody under 60 who looks healthy and sprightly and most probably isn't one of the main purchasers of walk-in baths, stair lifts or mobility scooters.

I don't see how my doing that makes it a ridiculous comparison at all? If anything, it surely makes a stronger case than when it's not a restricted market sector i.e. specifically choosing to show a black/Asian/white person using washing powder, eating oven chips or driving a Fiat.

Modern day slavery is abhorrent and shocking. The statistics which have been printed on this thread are eye-opening and horrific. More campaigning needs to be done to change this.

The PP who put those stats up was most definitely trying to make some wayward point but looking at those countries it's quite interesting that the worst seems to be India. Yet India is a commonwealth country that's supposed to be benefiting from our trade, financial and social support. Same goes with Nigeria. Look at the full list and there are a lot of commonwealth countries there.

Part of what problem?

@Diverseopinions I can assure you that lots of racist people have mixed raced children. Lots & lots of mixed raced people will tell you about the things they have had said and done to them by their own parents.
mixed raced children are often fetishised. Having them does not not qualify you as not racist.

Slave owners had mixed raced children did they not?

And having “a black friend” is absolutely not a qualifier. In fact it’s one of the top five things racist people love to say!

So true 😂

I can remember countless times where ‘ a friend’ has said “I hate ‘racist slur’; oh but you’re alright”!

in my naivety I took it as an uncomfortable compliment im ashamed to say

😂😂 yes.

"I've a black wife and I'm not racist but......."

Cue racist tirade!

My MIL is a prime example. Racist AF.

When we got together 20+ years ago she said to my wife, "oh, I guess he'll do for the time being".

Nowadays she complains about every other race except mine, but she's not racist as her SIL is East Asian 😂

@Lunar270 my mother & her family are racist. I don’t want to traumatise myself with recalling all the things they’ve said & done but it’s unfortunately not uncommon.

The only thing that makes a person not racist is them not being racist. A souse, child, friend is not a waiver.

What is being a racist then if you can still be one if you love black people and want to bear a mixed race child?

Choosing the orientation of your life to define yourself and your future, by embracing black culture is a pretty significant part of existence. It shows more about what you actually feel and think, than paying lip service to certain attitudes for instance. I'd rather believe in somebody who has lived the part.

Lunar270

What is the point you're making about British government support for India and Nigeria?

Most countries in the world are benefitting from our trading support, aren't they - with the exception, of course of Russia and North Korea.

It's appalling that actual modern day slavery goes on. I hope that a lot more campaigning is done to stop it, in those countries where it happens. It's hard to imagine that it goes on in the modern age and depressing that human nature can be so evil.

@Diverseopinions hmm.. have a black baby to prove you aren’t racist & ‘play the part’.

I can only pray that you have no mixed raced children. You definitely don’t have black friends.