Page 15 | To think skin colour matters WAY more than people like to admit

daysayso · 2022-09-07T21:22:20+00:00

I am involved in marketing campaigns - I won't say what because it's outing but let's say I recently worked on a campaign where the service being provided had absolutely nothing to do with race (so it wasn't makeup or hair for example). Yet the vast majority that responded were people of colour (Same as the person featured in the ad) and it made me think how much your life chances are still dictated by your skin colour. People like to consider race more than they like to admit even in spaces where it has nothing to do with anything, people just seem to feel more 'comfortable' with their own. I felt for the first time in a long time my success will in part depend on my skin colour because for whatever reason the majority of white people that saw this ad decided it wasn't for them on the basis I'm someone of colour. Please no arguments I'm looking for a mature conversation and if you find the topic sensitive you need not respond Just looking for others experiences really

BryceQuinlanTheFirst · 08/09/2022 18:20

Agh it makes me so so angry! Your husband sounds lovely.

I've been with DH for 12 years, before I met him I was so oblivious to all these daily occurrences and things I wouldn't haven't considered. Sadly when you talk about these issues many people become so defensive, minimising and flat out denial it's all but impossible.

Fancydancer1934 · 08/09/2022 18:24

Sarah0611 · 07/09/2022 23:45

what is white privilege? I’m white. I’ve certainly not had a life of privilege

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You're not allowed to say that. You need to feel guilty for something you have no control over. Please allow yourself to be told what to think.

TokidokiBarbie · 08/09/2022 19:30

Lunar270 · 08/09/2022 17:02

What a terrible way to try and make a point

The 4x you're highlighting doesn't really take into consideration that the population of Africa, for instance, has grown from about 80 million in 1800 to 1.4 billion in 2021. That's about 175x larger. Other populations have also grown exponentially so your point really does fall flat as there's an overall reduction in slavery.

If you read the index and report it properly, instead of point scoring, it's really not a simple issue.

A large factor is slavery for organ removal, much of which finds its way to Western countries who have the resources and healthcare systems to benefit.

The rest relates to forced marriage or human trafficking by organised crime. Much of those countries are in conflict and some, like North Korea have dictatorships that have state enforced systems.

It's definitely not good but the difference is, the UK has always claimed to hold the moral high ground over dictators and other oppressive regimes.

Only just last month we found that Churchill was behind massive human rights abuses in Kenya, where the UK government hid and denied state organised torture of Kenyan who just wanted their country back from the English, who had colonised and taken over. Yet these people were reported in the UK press as terrorists. Absolutely disgusting when Churchill is lauded as the saviour of WW2.

This is whitewashing of history is a disgrace and whilst regular white folks shouldn't feel guilty for past atrocities, the government shouldn't be hiding or covering up its bloody history.

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I take your points, but I still think it's a bit rich for somebody to expect the British to feel guilty/apologise for what their government did centuries ago if they themself come from a country whose government is still doing those things.

I'd wager the average woke person isn't even particularly aware of the extent of modern slavery tbh.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 08/09/2022 20:39

Black people don't comment on mumsnet because of the overwhelming white privilege on 98% of these posts.

How can you possibly know what colour/race individual posters are, if they don't mention it, though? That just makes me think of the threads that come up all the time where people say "You can always tell the male posters, because they always do/say XXXX" - when in reality, there could be any number of decent, respectful male posters who are automatically discounted from the negative stereotype as 'non-existent', purely because they don't fit it and thus weaken the perceived ubiquity of it.

I'm not for one moment denying that white privilege exists, but do black MNers really avoid commenting on all manner of threads where nobody ever mentions skin colour, purely because WP does exist in the world? Black people would really feel unwelcome/deterred from commenting on a CF or parking thread because WP is a thing, albeit not in the slightest alluded to in the thread? That's a terrible shame to arbitrarily miss out on all of those contributions, if so.

FarFromHome2 · 08/09/2022 21:02

BloodyHellKen · 08/09/2022 11:23

I've not read the whole thread, but to be fair to @Aretheyhavingalaugh I don't get why the UK population is 3% black, but at least 50% of adverts feature black people either. Or mixed race couples. All advert couples now have to be mixed race. I'm not saying it offends me I just find it weird as it's so obviously not representative of the population.

And why do Chinese people never feature in adverts or Sikhs?

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It’s far more often a black male with a white woman than the other way round too, which is very strange.

I’ve heard it claimed that there’s been backlash from the Afro-Caribbean community when it’s a white man and a black woman, but can’t understand why that would be the case.

bellac11 · 08/09/2022 21:09

Thats odd, I always notice its the other way round. White husband and black wife/mum

I also mentioned a while back that Asians both from the Indian subcontinent and the far east are almost invisible on UK screens despite Indian/Pakistani/south Asians being a far bigger ethnic group than black African/Caribbean. its very strange

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daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:10

@Sarah0611 I'm the nicest way you seem confused about your heritage.

What do you mean you identify as white? If your mixed that doesn't really mean anything as you are mixed whether you like it or not I'm afraid.

Also - just because I'm proud of my heritage that doesn't mean I have to be talked negatively about or stereotyped. Your message makes no sense and honestly I believe you're part of the issue

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Original poster

daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:12

Bodice · 07/09/2022 23:25

I Haven’t Read the whole thread but as one of the first responders said, we all display unconscious bias.
The way you the OP interpreted the response to the ad also displayed an unconcious bias. You interpreted that white people decided it wasn’t for them rather than thinking that more people of colour thought it was for them because another person of colour was in the ad.

This is a fair point but actually I also thought what you've mentioned I just didn't put it in the original post as I typed it quickly but I lm sure a later post I said similar - both sides are displaying bias and it's just sad

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FarFromHome2 · 08/09/2022 21:13

bellac11 · 08/09/2022 21:09

Thats odd, I always notice its the other way round. White husband and black wife/mum

I also mentioned a while back that Asians both from the Indian subcontinent and the far east are almost invisible on UK screens despite Indian/Pakistani/south Asians being a far bigger ethnic group than black African/Caribbean. its very strange

If I remember, and don’t fast-forward through the adverts I might try to keep count.

Original poster

daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:13

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 07/09/2022 23:34

I agree OP

I think everyone needs to acknowledge that most people in the whole world have some sort of racial bias. It's a hard thing to acknowledge about yourself but I think it's an important step as once you do, then you can start questioning yourself and your assumptions and behaviour etc and make some positive changes.

I did the (I think it's the) chicago university racial bias thing and I was at first horrified by my results (I'm married to someone who is technically a different race to me though doesnt look it, I live in a very multicultural area, my friends are various races etc and I thought I'd have no bias at all) but when you read through the results, the vast majority of people do.

Knowing a bit about how our mind works is a good start in improving how we react to things though

Exactly this thank you

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InChocolateWeTrust · 08/09/2022 21:15

The thing is

People of every skin colour buy iPhones, and Nike trainers, and coca cola etc. It doesnt matter whether the person in those ads is a white man, a black man, a south Asian man, an east Asian female, a black female, has freckles, is disabled, people buy a good product.

I'm not that sure the marketing in ads has much impact, I think more likely a) good products sell b) people what their friends and family have and people tend to mix socially more with people of similar backgrounds including skin colour c) some products appeal culturally to certain groups and so regardless of the marketing would attract a particular type of consumer.

Original poster

daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:19

@Blue87 you feel an ad makes you safe and at home even if it has nothing to do with race?

So would you ignore a fairy liquid ad because the main actor is black?

This is my point - fairy liquid has nothing to do with race.

If I'm advertising foundation and was black or Asian then obviously you'd skip past it but why for a product or service that is nothing to do with race? That, to me, is racist

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Original poster

daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:24

Musti · 08/09/2022 00:22

Representation matters.

I work in marketing and we choose images that matches our target audience. It stops the scroll, they can see themselves. It resonates.

im a professional but I’m also a middle aged mother. Don’t put pictures of middle aged men in suits on products or services you want to sell to me.

Babies seek what is familiar as that is safest. They’re not racist.

I’m not sure kids would notice skin colour difference any more than eye or hair colour difference unless we created the difference.

There is prejudice amongst same race people.

(I know there is racism btw)

Agree and that's what my thread is - ultimately whether you like it or not your life chances will be affected because of your skin colour,

This ad in my OP is less effective, because of the persons skin colour sadly

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Original poster

daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:25

alphons · 08/09/2022 00:24

It’s nothing new OP. 35-odd years ago I thought Timotei shampoo was only suitable for blonde hair because every TV, billboard and magazine advert featured a different blonde haired white woman.

Bad example, hair products will be different based on your skin colour - but once again I repeat the service advertised hd nothing to do with skin colour at all

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daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:26

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 08/09/2022 00:28

Dialling right back to the OP, and the customers 'identifying' with the people in the adverts, it does seem weird when you consider that so many adverts for walk-in baths and aids whose main target demographic would be elderly and disabled people feature apparently healthy models under 35; and fashion ranges specifically aimed at larger women (or just hugely stressing the fact that they go up to a much larger size than is standard) still use models who are a size 12.

This is a ridiculous comparison because the product and services your pointing out ARE made for those groups - the product I am referring to in my OP is relevant to all races! It is nothing to do with race!! At all - so your comparisons are not good

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Knittynanna · 08/09/2022 21:28

The only people who don't think skin colour matter are the ones who's skin colour gives them an advantage not a disadvantage and are not acknowledging that advantage. The very definition of white privilege to think that skin colour doesn't matter

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daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:31

QueenCamilla · 08/09/2022 02:40

Also, coming from a marketing/media agency background:
The ads we DO see are targeted to be seen (or not seen).
I won't see Asian skincare ads because it's not within the information that the search engines hold on me.
In fact, it's enough for the powers of the Web to identify me as white and I'll barely get any content by black YouTube or TikTok creators.

The game is rigged before we even get to the game. There's a high chance white people didn't respond to the ad because they didn't get to see it.

One wondered if this could be happening. I agree, the algorithms are possibly the racist ones !

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daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:34

@Diverseopinions why do you need to know the product or service why can't you just take my word it had nothing to do with race?

Ok let's say it was advertising a professional service - the service just trust me has nothing to do with race at all.

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daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:35

FrenchFancie · 08/09/2022 06:26

i think the OP had a point - I used to work for a certain national charity ages ago and was working with the marketing team to place newspaper adds. I was told ‘you can’t use X ad in the daily mail, the family featured is black and it won’t generate any cash’. For various reasons I overrode that decision and lo and behold the campaign flunked. After getting a bollocking I re-ran it a few weeks later - essentially the same advert (same wording, same call to action but featuring the story of a little blond girl with a very English sounding name) - this time we raked it it! I was horrified but the marketing department just shrugged their shoulders, apparently this was a well known fact.

i left not long afterwards but it’s always stuck with me - it’s not that daily mail readers are racist as such, but it’s read by white people who don’t identify with them family featured in the advert and this they don’t donate. In order to be successful the advert had to feature ‘people like us’ to resonate with the reader and get them to donate.

also, always listen to your marketing team, they know this stuff, sad as it is. Glad I no longer work in that industry…

👏👏👏 thank you! This is exactly my whole point

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TokidokiBarbie · 08/09/2022 21:38

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Original poster

daysayso · 08/09/2022 21:43

gogohmm · 08/09/2022 09:27

It is dependent on what you were marketing though, was it something that has a cultural bias? I for instance use shampoo which is heavily marketed to Afro Caribbean women (never even had heard of it until a black friend recommended it) because I have curly hair.

Whereas if I saw a car advert with an Asian woman driving it I wouldn't think that car isn't for me!

I really couldn't care about the colour of someone's skin but product choice or events etc are more subtle because it's what we enjoy, our taste, and yes upbringing. I've experienced reverse racism and been made to feel uncomfortable at reggae concerts, why can't I enjoy this music? But I was was made unwelcome

This is exactly what I'm trying to explain! But sadly most people WOULD think it's a car for Asians only based on the results from my OP - because in a similar way to cars the product had NOTHiNg to do with colour so as woke as the world likes to think they've become we are far far from perfect

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bellac11 · 08/09/2022 21:44

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TokidokiBarbie · 08/09/2022 21:52

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Now I come think of it, that's very true. You very rarely see ME people on TV etc.

TokidokiBarbie · 08/09/2022 22:00

I daresay that black culture is much more entwined with our modern society than Indian culture is too. There are so many household names in the media/music sphere. I can't think of Indian equivalents to Jimi Hendrix, Tupac, Biggie, Stormzy, Michael Jackson, Prince, Beyonce, Tina Turner, Samuel L Jackson, Laurence Fishburn, etc, just off the top of my head.

Bollywood and Indian music etc seems to very much be a separate scene from our western one.

bellac11 · 08/09/2022 22:26

TokidokiBarbie · 08/09/2022 22:00

I daresay that black culture is much more entwined with our modern society than Indian culture is too. There are so many household names in the media/music sphere. I can't think of Indian equivalents to Jimi Hendrix, Tupac, Biggie, Stormzy, Michael Jackson, Prince, Beyonce, Tina Turner, Samuel L Jackson, Laurence Fishburn, etc, just off the top of my head.

Bollywood and Indian music etc seems to very much be a separate scene from our western one.

Im not sure I view that as black culture, I view that as american pop culture/music influences

Whereas I would say the UK has a stronger affinity to Indian culture/influences/associations than it does to black African or Caribbean culture/influences/associations outwith music

I work with a large middle eastern client group and when completing applications for them, its so hard to know what to pick or even if I am describing 'middle eastern' correctly. They are children so some of them dont have a view (or care) but its a nightmare because forms are not inclusive of Iran/Iraq/Kurdish/Egyptian etc etc