To think skin colour matters WAY more than people like to admit

[daysayso]

I am involved in marketing campaigns - I won't say what because it's outing but let's say I recently worked on a campaign where the service being provided had absolutely nothing to do with race (so it wasn't makeup or hair for example).

Yet the vast majority that responded were people of colour (Same as the person featured in the ad) and it made me think how much your life chances are still dictated by your skin colour.

People like to consider race more than they like to admit even in spaces where it has nothing to do with anything, people just seem to feel more 'comfortable' with their own.

I felt for the first time in a long time my success will in part depend on my skin colour because for whatever reason the majority of white people that saw this ad decided it wasn't for them on the basis I'm someone of colour.

Please no arguments I'm looking for a mature conversation and if you find the topic sensitive you need not respond

Just looking for others experiences really

DaydreamsinSanteFe

What are you actually saying to me? Is that I couldn't possibly have genuine friends who are black because no black person would like me?

DaydreamsinSanteFe

People have mixed race children because they want to embrace black culture. That is obvious. Having children is the most major of all life decisions and nobody would do it to posture.

It won't be possible to personalise this thesis because I, myself, don't have mixed race children. I have read posts in which writers have claimed that you can have mixed race children and still be racist. I can't imagine what definition of being racist is being used for this to be a possibility. Lived experience is much more significant than comments which a person might make.

@Diverseopinions yes I’m saying that black people wouldn’t like you or want you in their space. You would be damaging to their/my mental health. No one wants to be your token black friend.

Im relieved to know you don’t have mixed raced children & haven’t gone that far to prove how much you like us.

DaydreaminginSantaFe

What is it about what I've said that would cause such an extreme reaction?

This thread has, indeed, been antagonistic and divisive. For instance, if wanting to join your life with somebody is not enough to show that you love them/their culture and their loved ones, then the criteria for thinking correctly is, indeed, a mysterious one.

This has not been an interesting thread, in my opinion. A lot of venom and ill-feeling has been directed at others. Also, situations which are controlled by government and big institutions have been wrongly mixed up with discussion about personal morality and right-thinking..

@Diverseopinions If you are white & you call your child a “little black bastard” would that make you racist?

A PP was making a point that the UK is self flagellating for past slavery but that numerous other countries are still doing it. A bit disingenuous IMO, given most is organised crime and not state approved like it was.

They then reeled off a list of countries where a lot still happens. Like India are making the UK look like small fry.

The point I'm making is that being part of the commonwealth is supposed to benefit said country via social support and the influence of a more advanced government. We trade a lot with India yet we don't make nearly as much noise, as such an influential country, to pressure or support their government to do more to tackle modern slavery.

The UK has done a lot to tackle slavery here and our figures are in the 10's of thousands as opposed to millions. We should be using our relatively powerful position to support our commonwealth countries to stamp it out, if we're to take any moral high ground.

“I don't know about the UK, but Asians have better financial and health outcomes in the US than white people do.”

doesn’t Asian in America commonly refer to East Asian rather than South Asian?

Lunar 270

Agreed. British Government needs to do more and public need to be made more aware so that they can hold their MPs to it.

DayDreamsinSanteFe

Yes. That would make you racist - what you say. I'd like to think that parents who speak like that to their kids are few and far between.

To try to salvage something useful from this thread, for my awareness, of all your white friends, what sticks out in your mind as something they might say, or an attitude which they might present which would strike you as characteristically positive and aware?

Colour or culture? I tend not to see skin colour if the person I'm talking to has the same accent and clothing but far more aware if they dress differently or have a strong accent and have obvious origins elsewhere. This is same for those of my colour who have a different accent or clothing. I think we instinctively note differences and similarities, in the past it would have been a way of distinguishing those who were perhaps too closely related to marry or too different to connect with (culturally). There will always be people who embrace the differences (explorers, traders, travellers) and those who feel threatened. We wouldn't have such diversity if people didn't want to mix and see past the differences.

In terms of ads it depends if the ad is directed to a particularly race ie make up will suit different skin types and if it isn't mine I'd ignore it.

I totally agree with this. We all do it at least to an extent. You can do some tests online to help assess how much of an unconscious bias you have. If you think you don’t see colour it maybe isn’t a massive one but doesn’t mean it’s not there. It’s helpful to be aware of it as it means you make a conscious effort to put first instinctive reactions to one side.

If you do actually work in marketing you should know people respond to content that represents them

So of course black consumers will respond more to an advert featuring a black model.

Not sure why you even highlight this as it's a well known phenomenon

I agree totally OP. I often think of how everyone in adverts for exercise classes round our way are all white. Yet people who aren't white are meant to feel ok about that and feel fine about signing up for the class. Yet if everyone in the adverts were black, I think no white person would go as they would think it was for black people. Which is all kinds of messed up.

That's just one such tiny part of life and there are so many microaggressions like that as well as explicit nasty stuff. We live in a racist society with so many messed up parts to it. Anyone denying that is crazy.

I see colour 100% of the time because there is so much racism and you have to try to be an advocate and stand up against it no matter what colour you are. It's more frightening being a black male than a white male, for example, when it comes to being stopped and searched by the police for no reason. Why would I not see that? We can't just sweep it under the carpet and pretend that isn't the truth.

Softplayhooray

I think that there is a difference between closing your eyes to the issue of racism in society and the definition of how someone as an individual approaches a new acquaintance.

I assume that most posters refer to the latter example when they say that they do not see colour. They seek to connect with what the person has to say, completely without prejudging them.

Yes I think that might be the case but then it’s denying experiences.

I’m finding it difficult to explain. By not seeing my ethnicity/ colour is to perhaps deny how much harder it might’ve been to get to my position; to deny how much harder I had to work and prove myself.

@Softplayhooray thank you for this post you've articulated what I was trying to say in one post instead of the many it took me!!

Lol but this exactly my point

@XtinaCaligulara you're misunderstanding - please read the thread if you're to comment.

If I am plus size obviously I'm not going to respond to a size 8 advertisement absolutely the representation matters

But if I'm advertising a vacuum, why should it matter what size the person is? It has no impact on my usage lf the product does it?

@Diverseopinions sample size is 15,000

Can someone tell me why my comments were deleted when they were written in response to others who were being dismissive of my race?

It's about advocacy in my mind. Colour matters in an ugly in-your-face way that can cause so many people to suffer violence, abuse, discrimination, etc. If I say I don't see colour I'm saying I don't see prejudice, and that's wrong, because we all need to fight it, not ignore it. I get that the phrase is meant to be well intentioned but it can cause real damage.

I think seeing colour in a work context is important for the reasons given by Rummikub. There has to be acknowledgement of their strength of character in overcoming the hurdles which have been put in their way.

In an every day or social context, however, it would seem to me the height of honourable behaviour to treat any new acquaintance as if they are you - and to extend the level of courtesy and emotional engagement to them, which you'd like for to be shown to yourself. To think ' this person feels and senses things as I do'.

As a white person I will probably think in response to what Rummikub says, that a black person will have had to overcome hurdles to get to a position, and that needs to be respected and admired, but I'd also think, do you know what hurdles another person has had to overcome in their life to survive, in terms of domestic abuse growing up, perhaps, or dyslexia, or emotional trauma?

I feel that it is letting history and the sins of some of our fathers win, if we can't just say: 'Lets start again and treat everyone as brothers and sisters of the same humanity'. History was wrong, but we're enlightened now. Let's start again.

I find it a bit sad that the example Rummikub gives sounds like a professional context one, as, it makes me ask ...do you not ever consider this issue within a context of SOCIAL interaction? Is making friends of white people not a possibility? Surely with friendships we don't really factor in the past experience of the person, or relative advantage, we just warm to them?

I've been told on this thread this afternoon that no black person would want to be my friend, even though I have black friends of years standing. That was rude, and not nice when the OP had said they were genuinely interested to hear the genuine thoughts of what people think. OP had invited open debate.

. It does come across to me - as a white person - on this thread that their is an underlying message that: ' white people are horrible and it's wrong for them to think that this fact can be forgotten' And 'because of history, white people are morally inferior and they need to recognise that they will always do people down and oppress them' - much in the way, I suppose, that a pet cat will always scratch you, because it's in its nature. It seems to me that whiteness is being seen as like the Christian concept of original sin, and its being suggested that white people can never escape their horribleness.

I can't see why white privilege couldn't die out, in the way that class prejudice has largely died out in the UK, and definitely has in the US. I don't get the feel in this thread that white privilege is seen as something on the downside, it's being kept alive as a concept rather than being treated as a dying relic from a less enlightened time.

if everyone in the adverts were black, I think no white person would go as they would think it was for black people. Which is all kinds of messed up.

I disagree with this. In an attempt to correct previous discrimination there have been initiatives aimed at black people, to restore balance. Therefore a white personal may well see an advert for exercise classes with all black actors and assume, without it being a micro aggression, that this is for black people. Or not, depending on what the advert actually said.
If I was white and living in a country where the majority population was black, I wouldn't assume the generic products in the adverts weren't for me. Although if there was a significant white population (but a minority overall) I'd like to see white peoples represented sometimes.