Parents not upsetting people who can’t have kids

[PlumPudd]

Read this article in the Guardian with interest, about the need for people with kids to be very conscious of the pain people without kids around them might be feeling, and how friendships can break up when one person is able to have kids and the other can’t.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/06/new-parent-friend-children-baby-grief?CMP=fb_cif#comment-158514602

As someone with one kid and a second on the way, and some old friends / a sibling around me who don’t have kids (some who want them but haven’t found a partner, one who is struggling to conceive), I do try to be careful not to constantly talk about mine or say things like “gosh you went to the theatre then had a lie in the next day, I’m so jealous.” Even though I am very jealous. Also try to not always suggest meet ups with them at the park with baby in tow (though most meet ups do have to be like this as it’s just when I have more time to meet and gives partner valuable alone time to cook, read, be a person rather than a parent.

However, it is also legitimately hard not to sometimes talk about your kids or bring your baby along to a meet up, because when they are young, they consume your life in a way that is sometimes good and sometimes bad : exhausting!! I’d love to be able to chat to friends about the books I’m reading, the day trips I’ve been on, the exhibitions I’m going to visit, what’s going on in politics at the moment but since having a baby the time I have to do any of those things has literally shrunk by about 85%. You also do start spending a bit more time with other parents because they also care about objectively boring stuff like sleep schedules and catchment areas, and they also don’t mind hanging out in awful kid friendly cafes and soft plays.

Curious to hear views about what parents and those who want to be parents can do to accommodate each other’s lives without causing hurt.

I think this is ridiculous. I thought I was infertile for twenty years, and yes I grieved that but I didn't begrudge other people having children or spending time around children.

It hurts to be told I'll never understand a love between a child and his mother and it does hurt to be told that I can take my nephew out to places when he's older so I get to experience these things.

My god. People are stupid. Insensitive too, but mostly stupid. I'm sorry you have family making these ridiculous comments.

I still think you've got an element of choice there, which is of course going to be influenced by your experience. While I wouldn't expect my toddler to sit nicely while I have an adult catch up, it definitely wouldn't be a normal occurrence for me to do two child focussed activities in one day!

I do still stand by my point though that I don't think it's really on childfree people or people with children to accomodate the others requirements though in terms of choice of activity though. I think it's very natural for relationships to change as their lives do.

Oh this is going to sound rather like a man scratching his head about women. Why not just be blunt, blunt doesn't mean dishonest, or hurtful.... I have 2 couple friends who had problems (one problem conceiving, the other carrying to term) and in both cases, we came up with the rule of "be blunt".. We would often talk about going somewhere like a park or cinema, and we would just bluntly have responses "Sorry - nope, can't handle being near babies today" and we would completely understand.

Once we were more open and honest with each other couple and when we were subjected to some of the obsessive mothers (the ones who only talk about their wonderful children) we found that some of those obsessive mothers were in their own words, obsessed because they had 3 rounds of IVF or sufferd miscarriages and were just so greatful when they were successful. Sometimes you do have to remember that, because there is sometimes a fair and reasonable explanation for why some parents are child obsessed. Also it helps those child obsessed parents because it can help them be a bit more tactful.

I have child free by choice friends and child free not by choice friends. I would never have asked any of them to come and hang out in the park or soft play with me and DTs when they were at that stage, who would inflict that on anyone?!

when kids are small relationships with friends do change, even in my group of friends with kids it became harder to see each other as some of us were back at work, some wanting to hang out with their families at the weekends, evenings out were military operations for a couple of years. Once the kids all got a bit older, things went mostly back to how they were before.

We would often talk about going somewhere like a park or cinema, and we would just bluntly have responses "Sorry - nope, can't handle being near babies today" and we would completely understand.

Not everyone does understand though unfortunately.

It really depends on the reason they don't have children. Some women just don't want them. Some do but didn't or couldn't have them.

When my best friend from school had her first baby I was there. I spent a small fortune on gifts for them both. I sat with her when her PND had her wanting to launch the baby through the window. Babysat when she had appointments. Etc.
Then, when she arranged the baby's 1st birthday party, I wasn't invited. She just invited family and friends with children because it was a children's party and mummies and some other self-absorbed bullshit that spelled out my childlessness meant I wasn't on her level any more. It was incredibly hurtful.

I'd say don't complain about your children to childless friends. Don't tell your childless friends you're jealous of their lie ins and they are sooo lucky. But also don't imply life would be worthless without children. And don't drop them for mummy friends.

@KimberleyClark I think the article is advocating for what @mansviewpoint is saying though - that people should be more honest and more direct. I completely agree.

I'd also say that if you have friends who can't understand why you wouldn't want to constantly be around their children, then those aren't good friends. I have DC. But I have definitely made a point of losing friends who will ONLY do things with the DC and can't possibly go out without them because those people are boring and annoying.

People can be insensitive.

I am conscious not to chat about my two teenage DC too.much too my childless cousin, to the extent I talk about them very little.
That can be hard to achieve as we are catching up on family news and it does feel as though they are airbrushed from existence.

My cousin is very vocal about her sorrow that she will never have a child (she is now mid 50s) to the extent she has yet to meet her beautiful niece who is now 10 months old.
She has acknowledged her existence however we cannot speak of her without a reaction so now do not Which in itself is sad and hurtful to her nieces parents.

I am very sympathetic and wish things were different for everyone

That last post is so sad WhenISnapped
What insensitive clods your DM and Dsis are, especially DM if she knows about your not being able to have DC. Can you tell DM (once only) that although you understand she is excited to have a grandchild, you find it hurtful that she goes on about it.
An uncle once said to me and my DP (no children, though he did not know the reason) - "All women are mothers". Why would he say that, knowing we did not have them?
Congratulations on your nephew, and wishing that he brings you joy.

I had significant difficulty getting pregnant and staying pregnant and never needed anyone to tiptoe round me by not mentioning their children or hiding them at home. It’s a weird vibe. Yes I do some things without children, just as I do some things without my partner, but I think that’s normal anyway.

I don’t have kids, I have no wish to conceive at the moment (or ever who knows) so I can’t speak to that but my relationship with my best friend has changed since she’s had her baby. I totally get it because her world has changed and it’s focussed on her beautiful little guy.

He’s a great kid too and I like hearing about him and how he’s doing but our conversations are a bit more stale and visits are far apart now because the interests we shared has shifted to motherhood for her (which I totally get). I think it’s natural for people to grow apart when they have a kid. I can’t just show up and we can’t just talk until the morning about random stuff and we can’t plan trips out of the blue.

But she knows I’m here for her and I know the opposite is true also! Different life stages and I’m sure she doesn’t resent me for spending time with CF friends just like I think it’s great she had mummy mates now. My advice is to not overthink it and things change sometimes and that’s ok!

I can't say I'm a fan of this recent tendency to "include" everyone in everything. On Mother's Day, we're told we have to "make space for" those who aren't mothers for whatever reason. Same on Father's Day. It's exhausting. Victim culture.

I was so mindful of some friends of mine that couldnt have kids when I had my first.

I was constantly aware of how they were feeling. But being so mindful meant we slowly stopped seeing them at all over time. In the end they moved away anyway and that was that. We’re not in touch now.

I really miss them.

I think it's hard when you have children and someone close can't have kids. My brother and his wife couldn't have children and to be honest they were awful with us, they refused to meet our children and I can confidently count on 1 hand how many times they have seen our children (they live 5min walk away and our eldest is 6). It's nearly 6 years since they gave up and accepted no children, we had 3 children in this time which is bad timing but there isn't anything I can do about that. It is bizarre they will buy gifts etc (very nice thoughtout presents I'll add) but they drive to my parents which is 15 min drive in the opposite direction rather than drop it off at our house around the corner. Our youngest is 18 months now, I think it's time they stopped with this silly charade, our children are part of the family as much as anyone else, I've been so patient and kind to them and have never said anything to them but I have found it hard to deal with. I think it works both ways, yes don't rub your children in people's faces but also don't make me feel bad and ignore me because I have kids.

People going on about their kids can be boring when you don't have any and when you don't know the kids. Not a big deal though and we all talk about stuff others aren't interested in.

Coming out with shit like "You can't understand because you're not a mum" to two colleagues, one of whom has lost a child and the other is under huge cultural pressure because they don't have children - hurtful and insensitive.

I think like anything in life it's important to be considerate to others, but it shouldn't be to your own expense all of the time either. When I had DS I was very mindful about never talking about him, always leaving him with DH if we met up and agreeing with how shit parenthood sounds around certain friends as I knew how they'd feel otherwise. That wasn't sustainable or healthy though, not because I want to talk about parenthood incessantly, waffle on about how amazing it is and no one could understand, or have DS with me all of the time- but because he is an important part of my life.

Yes I'm still me and I bloody love catching up and seeing friends, hearing about them and having fun together, but it's a balance for me. I have friends who cut contact when they found out I was pregnant (we didnt announce as such, no post on social media just told close friends and family as and when) which was hurtful but if they had to for their own sake that's fine- and others who expected me to bend over backwards and cut contact when I couldn't any more.

I don't yet have children. I'm single and am considering doing it alone. Most of my friends know that I do want to be a mother at some point. I'm mid-thirties so most of my friends do have children now. I'm used to it, my first friend to have a baby had

I look forward to being able to do fewer child centric activities or ones that are more well suited to kids and adults both once DS is a bit older, (he’s 16 months and runs everywhere) but at the moment this is how it is. Sounds like we have different kinds of kids.

I do think childfree people and child having people need to make SOME accommodations, if they want their friendships to last or at least to keep ticking over. Realistically children do change your life, how much free time you have and your priorities a lot and there is no getting around it

You cant live your life tip toeing.
So no. Just live your life.

I do think childfree people and child having people need to make SOME accommodations

Has anyone suggested that they don’t? That’s just common sense when someone’s circumstances for any reason.

Oops, accidentally pressed post too soon.

My first friend had her baby at 20 so I suppose my whole adult life its been normal for friends to have babies. I've been to so many activities with her children that it doesn't really bother me. I've spent a lot of time with other friends and family members children. I like being "aunty."

I do get upset when people talk about my biological clock etc. One man I knew told me my biological clock was ticking, better get a move on; I was 25! He's just turned 50 now and his eldest is only about 15.

I am worried about my fertility and do worry that I will struggle to conceive. Occasionally I do have a little cry about it, at home alone. But I'm happy to spend time with my friends and their children and would probably be quite hurt if they chose to exclude me from activities.

Everyone should be sensitive, it isn't just upsetting to not have children if you want them. I worked with someone who'd have a major strop if anyone mentioned children but when my mother died she talked endlessly about how wonderful her mother was, what a wonderful relationship they had etc. It was weird as she'd hardly done it before but may I just hadn't been sensitive to it before. I was telling someone I was going to be a grandmother again and was taken to one side and told not to do that when she was around. I'd had enough and said I'd stop talking about my GC if she stopped talking about her mother.

It is difficult because obviously you don't want to hurt someone.
I have a childhood friend I lost touch with for many years.
We reconnected and I had 2 children and she had had two children who were stillborn.

Obviously I expressed my condolences, made sure she knew that whenever, if ever, she needed to talk, I wanted to listen.

After that, I just don't talk about my children. Well, I say children they're in their 20s now.

She never asks about them. I'm not sure she even knows their names. I just keep that part of my life separate because it's clear that, for her, it's just too painful.

I have no particular need to talk about my children to her specifically. There are lots of other people I can chat with and who ask what they're up to and I can have proud boasts and pissed of moans about them to.

I think you have to take it person by person and try to do what they need.