Are we being unreasonable for not letting my sister and her family live in our house while we are gone?

[timeaway4now]

My husband, son, and I are moving away for a few years. We were going to ask our niece, Sarah, to live in our house for free in return for looking after it until we return. She is currently looking for a new place in the area, so we thought it was good timing all around.

My sister found out about the situation and wants us to instead let her and her family live in the house because it’s much bigger and she wants more room for her kids. She and her husband have 4 children (ages 14, 11, 8, 6) in a small flat.

Our house on the other hand is larger, so the older two would be able to have their rooms. The house also has an office that my sister says we could convert to another bedroom so Sarah could live there for free as well. Although we know that Sarah wouldn’t want to as she prefers to live alone.

Aside from having more room my sisters other reasoning is that she and her husband want to to save up for a deposit for a house of their own. They have been having trouble doing so and living in our house rent free for a few years would help them a lot.

My main issues is that I don’t like the idea of a bunch of kids living in my house. Things get very hectic at my sister place. It makes me feel like it is inevitable that things would get damaged. I also worry about upsetting our neighbors with how loud they can get. Our area is generally very peaceful and quiet.

We would also have to deal with putting our things in storage to accommodate their furniture. Sarah doesn’t have many things so we would only have to rearrange somethings and store them in the spare bedrooms.

Lastly we planned on coming back to town to visit once or twice a year. If my sisters family was living here it would mean we would have to either stay in and pay for a hotel or we would have to deal with them being there and sleep in the house without our things.

Overall having my sister’s family live here makes us uncomfortable and just seems much more inconvenient than having Sarah stay. However my sister as well as some other relatives think we are being selfish not to help out them when we are more privileged than them.

I've just read OP responses. You just need to be clear "Sorry, you can't stay. We are only having Sarah use one bedroom because we are coming and going, and don't want to pay storage costs."
If you're questioned then "We already explained why it won't work, please respect that we make decisions about our own property."

It's your home - and you've generously offered it to your neice.
Less privilidged?- your sister and her partner chose to have four children, they shouldn't expect you to subsidise that.

This happened to my grandfather when he let his niece stay in his second house. She has to be evicted and there was drama and lawyers fees for ages. A single person isn't necessarily the safe option you think it is.

Except the CF sister is currently living in a small flat so almost certainly not paying £40/£50k a year in rent. An earlier poster said she’d have the life changing opportunity to save a £100k deposit in 3 years. That just cloud cuckoo land for a sister who currently lives beyond her means and who at best is paying £1,500 a month in rent, almost all of which will go instead on paying for the OPs storage cost (assuming she was foolish enough give in to CF sister), the higher utility bills associated with a 4 bed house if she moved and her generally day to day living costs. I’d put money on the fact that after three years the CF sister would have precisely no more savings than at the beginning. And that’s before the hassle when she doesn’t move out and accuses the OP of making her homeless, and the cost to the OP of renovating again. The OP has absolutely no obligation to acquiesce to the sheer CF entitlement of her sisters ill thought-out plan.

It's your house

The only way I'd do this if I hadn't already offered it to someone else, would be to tell sister that she has to pay movers to pack up all my stuff (I'd be way too busy with all the packing and planning for my own move abroad), all the costs of storage for my stuff, and for movers to unpack it and put my stuff back in place for my return. Oh and obviously return the house to the condition in which I left it.

I suspect that suddenly it wouldn't seem as attractive an option.

The sister is living in a small flat. No idea of the area so we don't know how much her rent is but no way is it something like 45 to 50k a year.

She will have all the extra costs a much larger home will entail. Higher council tax, higher energy costs (they are likely to be astronomical with the huge increases) etc.

No way on earth is it likely she could save 100k a year. She obviously hasn't managed to save since she had the first child 14 years ago. No, instead she has just gone on to have another 3 children.

She and her husband sound totally irresponsible and I would not even consider letting them have a house they are likely to wreck and then refuse to leave.

If you think 4 children would only cause a bit of chipped paintwork then you are obviously on the same planet as the deluded sister

If my sister lived in a small flat with 4 kids I would offer her my my house if I was going to offer it to anyone. It is surely the kindest thing to do.

Obviously with signed agreements that they pay for any damage.

I couldn't imagine knowing a sister was struggling in small flat but letting a niece live in a big house.

YANBU. Stick to your original plan, there's a big difference in wear and tear to a house with a family of 4 kids vs your niece and her boyfriend. Your sister is very unfair to demand this.

But where would you stay when you popped back to the UK, if there was no room in your own house? Are you seriously expecting the OP to give that up as well? And how kind would you be, or do you think the CF sister would think you were being, when you evict them in 3 years time? Perhaps you’d just let them stay for ever, because ‘kind’…?!?!

Well no I'd have a conversation about it, so I'd say it would be for 2 yrs or whatever (so no need to 'evict' them) and when I visited the country once or twice a year they'd have to stay elsewhere.

It's what you do for family if in a position to do so. It would seem very unpleasant to let a niece have a big place to herself knowing the dsis was struggling. But that's just me, plenty of others on here think the dsis should be left to her flat as she's been feckless enough to have 4 kids.

But it's not the OP's fault that the sister lives in a small flat with 4 children is it? She is obviously not very sensible or forward thinking so really not the obvious choice to give a large house to.

I don't see it as the kindest thing to do but rather the riskiest thing to do.

Her sister's struggles are all of her own making

It's what you do for family

Helping a niece get onto the housing ladder? Yes, it is.

Signed agreements are great in theory but they’re not actually a solution. Good luck getting the sister to pay (if she can even get her out the house when she returns). If she doesn’t what does OP do? Take her to court and establish a payment plan (because you can’t force someone to part with money they don’t have)? Sure, and be met with a chorus of ‘how could you! That’s your sister!’, ‘but family!’, ‘think of your nieces and nephews!!.

all while OP deals with settling back into the country with a likely irate husband who is beyond fucked off that OP gave in to the emotional blackmail in the first place (and screwed over HIS family member as a result). Sounds amazing. Wouldn’t damage OP’s nuclear family relationships at all (never mind the extended ones on husband’s side), and it’s definitely something OP should do because the most important thing is of course ‘be kind’ (but only to the sister ).

i’m sure having six people in a small flat is hard. You don’t need to have four kids before you realize that though. The sister is living with the consequences of her own choices, she doesn’t get to demand that OP (and OP’s husband and child) shoulder that burden.

So just "having a conversation" about it would ensure that the OP would definitely not have to evict her sister when she refused to leave the house would it?

Also just assuming they would go and stay somewhere else when the OP visited is very very naive. The sister supposedly wants to save to buy a house so is not going to want to have to pay for an hotel or airbnb for 6 people.

As I said before the sister is struggling because of her poor life choices. Yes she is feckless to have had 4 children when she lives in a small flat and it seems can't really afford them.

It's not unpleasant to let a single woman have the house, it's sensible.

'But it's not the OP's fault that the sister lives in a small flat with 4 children is it?'

Who said it was the op's fault?

Look we're all different. Imo the dsis would get the house. I'd always help those in greatest need if I was in a position to do so.

Stick to Sarah as a lodger and then you have a home to return to at a moments notice or easy to evict her if she turns it into a party house.

I would be happy with a house sitter but not a family moving in and does Sarah even want to live with a family of six

Better to have a difficult conversation now than be in a position of evicting her in the future. It could take months for your sister to find a home, where will she live if you return or where will you live if you can't evict her quick enough?

I imagine you have already looked into the insurance aspect and this may be different with a family of 6.

If you genuinely are in a privileged position and do want to help your sister could you help her get on the property ladder / find a larger home another way?

The sort of sister that thinks she’s entitled to the OPs house when all the OP wants is a house sitter because she’ll be periodically returning, is exactly the sort of sister that wouldn’t move out in 2 or 3 years. It’s great that your family wouldn’t take advantage, but the very way the OP’s sister has approached this means it’d be a hard ‘no’ from me, even if I had been open to considering it. And it sounds as if their relationship, while perfectly civilised, is not close. And that’s also fine. Just because you can’t chose your family doesn’t mean you have to be close to them, and you certainly don’t have to feel obliged to sacrifice your home for them.

Do you? Seems a bit broad, when surely it depends on the relationships you have with individual family members?

Just because someone is family doesn’t mean you have to be close to/responsible for them. Sometimes, family members can also be complete arseholes, shockingly enough. I’ve got family members I’m close to and would happily help, and I’ve also got family members I’d ward off with garlic if all other repellants failed.

'As I said before the sister is struggling because of her poor life choices. Yes she is feckless to have had 4 children when she lives in a small flat and it seems can't really afford them.'

Poor life choices. So people living in flats with 4 kids have made poor life choices? I don't think the op sais the disis had made poor life choices. Perhaps they are like most people and just doing their best?

I'd do it for the 4 kids living in a flat even if the disis doesn't 'deserve it'.

Just say it doesn't work for you as you want to be able to come back on occasions.

Maybe it would be easier all round if you just let it our via an agent!

Where we live the rent on a home like that is about 45 to 50 k a year so that would be 100 k saved in a year.

£4000 a month is a massive amount of rent for a 4 bed house, There can’t be many places where it would be that much, so I’m guessing OP doesn’t live where you live! Anyway , they won’t be saving that; they will be saving the rent on their small flat. They will also be paying more for utilities and council tax plus storage for OP’s furniture. They will save a bit on not paying rent at all but who knows if they will save it or find something to spend it on.

Also - I know your sister has said Sarah could also Iive there with them (how remarkably generous of her 🙄), but do you not hink that she would (perhaps not intentionally*) force Sarah out? If Sarah, as you say, prefers to live alone, the sheer noise and number of people in the house may make it untenable for her.

I'll bet your sister would also be expecting babysitting from Sarah, and help in the kitchen and clearing up after her children - or if not, Sarah will just fine the untidiness and busy-ness overwhelming.

DOn't let your sister move in. You have already made arrangements with your niece.

*intentionally

Ah yes, children, the staple of emotional blackmail. That’s nice, but what’s that got to do with OP? You’re free to decide to do it if the situation ever arises, but that doesn’t mean OP has to, or that she’s a bad person if she doesn’t.

I’m not sure why the ‘it’s family, I’d do anything for family, shame on you’ contingent are so threatened by the idea that someone else’s family relationships may run differently to theirs. Lack of imagination? Threatened by the idea that their own family members may just be inspired to say no to them? Or is it resentment at the temerity of someone else to dodge bullets they feel they have to take in their own families? ‘How dare you escape when I can’t!’