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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are we being unreasonable for not letting my sister and her family live in our house while we are gone?

599 replies

timeaway4now · 04/09/2022 14:36

My husband, son, and I are moving away for a few years. We were going to ask our niece, Sarah, to live in our house for free in return for looking after it until we return. She is currently looking for a new place in the area, so we thought it was good timing all around.

My sister found out about the situation and wants us to instead let her and her family live in the house because it’s much bigger and she wants more room for her kids. She and her husband have 4 children (ages 14, 11, 8, 6) in a small flat.

Our house on the other hand is larger, so the older two would be able to have their rooms. The house also has an office that my sister says we could convert to another bedroom so Sarah could live there for free as well. Although we know that Sarah wouldn’t want to as she prefers to live alone.

Aside from having more room my sisters other reasoning is that she and her husband want to to save up for a deposit for a house of their own. They have been having trouble doing so and living in our house rent free for a few years would help them a lot.

My main issues is that I don’t like the idea of a bunch of kids living in my house. Things get very hectic at my sister place. It makes me feel like it is inevitable that things would get damaged. I also worry about upsetting our neighbors with how loud they can get. Our area is generally very peaceful and quiet.

We would also have to deal with putting our things in storage to accommodate their furniture. Sarah doesn’t have many things so we would only have to rearrange somethings and store them in the spare bedrooms.

Lastly we planned on coming back to town to visit once or twice a year. If my sisters family was living here it would mean we would have to either stay in and pay for a hotel or we would have to deal with them being there and sleep in the house without our things.

Overall having my sister’s family live here makes us uncomfortable and just seems much more inconvenient than having Sarah stay. However my sister as well as some other relatives think we are being selfish not to help out them when we are more privileged than them.

OP posts:
OnTheBrinkOfChange · 04/09/2022 22:41

Mumspair1 · 04/09/2022 15:37

What happens if your sister doesn't save up and doesn't want to move out, you will be guilted over that too. No, her choice to have a bunch of children. I wouldn't want 4 kids in a place I rented out as well, it will no doubt have far more wear and tear. Stick with Sarah, your reasons are valid.

But wear and tear might mean a new kitchen, a new bathroom, new sofas, new beds…

Wombat27A · 04/09/2022 22:42

It would be a tenancy for the family, whereas the single person with non-exclusive use would be a licence, so a lodger.

I think you'd have to bring the house up to the standard for letting, so tenancy deposit scheme, electric system check, landlord's gas certificate, change the mortgage & insurance...none of this would register with anyone entitled...

I wouldn't do it but I have cf relatives with no respect.

OnTheBrinkOfChange · 04/09/2022 22:44

What are your plans if for instance the washing machine breaks and needs to be replaced, if Sarah is there? It might be better to charge a nominal rent which you can use for repairs and replacements, but that will be difficult if you've already told her she can have it for nothing.

Those of you suggesting she should charge her sister a low rent, don't forget her sister knows that Sarah was going to get it for nothing.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 04/09/2022 22:45

@timeaway4now I have only read all your posts OP, so others have probably already said this, but my very first reaction was:

When your sister doesn't manage to save for a deposit - and from what you have said about her wonderful planning before in having 4 children while living in a flat - I am pretty sure that all the steep rises in living costs will mean that they couldn't actually save any money for a deposit on their own property, therefore you couldn't really throw your sister and family out on to the streets when you come back, could you? No, they and the rest of your family will expect you to rent yourselves a flat as you can "obviously: afford to do that!

I am really sorry OP but I do feel very strongly that trying to get your home back later on will be very difficult. It will cost you a lot of money in legal advice, and your family will end up hating you anyway! Has your sister put her name down with the council for a local authorities house?

Please stick to your guns over this OP 💐

Original poster
timeaway4now · 04/09/2022 22:46

@OnTheBrinkOfChange we would probably just pay for it to get fixed.

OP posts:
OnTheBrinkOfChange · 04/09/2022 22:48

Lacey247 · 04/09/2022 16:56

I’m going to go against the majority here and say I’d absolutely help my sister out. Knowing I was helping her and her family would take priority for me

I thought the majority were agreeing with you!

silverbubbles · 04/09/2022 22:49

Tell your sister that you have already invited Sarah and she has accepted.

chiweenie · 04/09/2022 22:51

saraclara
yes a family of 6 needs a larger house more than a young woman so they do trump that young woman in my book-the larger home will raise the quality of life for 6 people rather than one person and enable that family to buy a home and so secure raised quality of life for a sustained period of time.

Look it is more convenient for them to let the young woman have it so their concern is for themselves not the family of 6 people, that much is obvious from the post. I would rather help 6 people than one person if I was in a position to not have to generate rent on a home.

This is a Daily Mail journalist generating a story- a very clear utilitarian ethical dilemma we are all contributing to so see you all in the Daily Mail tomorrow folks...maybe they will link it to the housing crisis or the NHS...

YellowPlumbob · 04/09/2022 22:51

YANBU. There’s 0 chance I’d let my sister live in my house. We’re not really in each other’s lives and I’d be fuming but unsurprised if she tried this emotional blackmail shit with me.

chiweenie · 04/09/2022 22:56

Support from posters attests to how much we actually like our siblings...sibling affinity bias rules responses on this post.

MargotChateau · 04/09/2022 23:10

A family of six is a huge change to a young woman and possibly her partner.

If it were couple
and child, fair enough, but 6 people good grief. The entire house would need rearranging with furniture put into storage and there would be hard wear and tear on furnishings/appliances. As other posters pointed out you also run the risk that would won’t be able to dislodge them when you need to return and risk a bigger falling out. Also where would you stay when you come back for your brief visits?

I’d just say a flat no and it doesn’t work for you. Don’t give into giving explanations as it will lead to her trying to convince you otherwise.You need a quiet person without children to care for the home and the flexibility should the situation change that the young person could easily move out with a months notice, unlike a family of 6. Also your partner wants to go with the young woman and it’s his house too.

saraclara · 04/09/2022 23:14

@chiweenie Sarah has already been offered and accepted the deal. Are you honestly saying that OP and DH should renege on that?

They've made a commitment, and that's that, frankly.

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 04/09/2022 23:14

chiweenie · 04/09/2022 22:51

saraclara
yes a family of 6 needs a larger house more than a young woman so they do trump that young woman in my book-the larger home will raise the quality of life for 6 people rather than one person and enable that family to buy a home and so secure raised quality of life for a sustained period of time.

Look it is more convenient for them to let the young woman have it so their concern is for themselves not the family of 6 people, that much is obvious from the post. I would rather help 6 people than one person if I was in a position to not have to generate rent on a home.

This is a Daily Mail journalist generating a story- a very clear utilitarian ethical dilemma we are all contributing to so see you all in the Daily Mail tomorrow folks...maybe they will link it to the housing crisis or the NHS...

But if a family of 6 in a tiny flat cannot manage to save enough for a house deposit now, then how are they going to be any better off in what sounds like a 4/5 bedroom house, with huge increases in energy costs, council tax etc?

And what happens in 2/3 years time when OP and family return and sister is having to move house and schools in the middle of GCSE and A level exams? It doesn't sound like they live just down the road.

Tierne · 04/09/2022 23:18

God no wonder this country has become such a dark place to live.

There's a cost of living crisis and rather than help your sister out you're worried about whether you might need to repaint

saraclara · 04/09/2022 23:21

Tierne · 04/09/2022 23:18

God no wonder this country has become such a dark place to live.

There's a cost of living crisis and rather than help your sister out you're worried about whether you might need to repaint

THE HOUSE HAS ALREADY BEEN OFFERED TO, AND ACCEPTED BY SARAH.

Sorry to shout, but the sheer number of people who think it's perfectly okay for OP and her DH to renege on an offer to HIS own flesh and blood, is really pissing me off..

Breakfastisjustporridge · 04/09/2022 23:21

I would help my sister out in those circumstances. I would think my sister was being a bit of an arse to give a large house over to a single relative, while I was struggling in a small flat with a big family. I think it might damage your relationship otherwise.
I would look into insurance to cover any damages and charging a small amount to cover costs, get a contract stating when she will be moving out, but I think it's quite mean to possibly deny them the opportunity to save for something that could improve their lives significantly.

Pinkfluff76 · 04/09/2022 23:22

It’s not your fault your sister has 4 kids. But I would charge Sarah some kind of rent, at least to cover bills.

saraclara · 04/09/2022 23:23

Pinkfluff76 · 04/09/2022 23:22

It’s not your fault your sister has 4 kids. But I would charge Sarah some kind of rent, at least to cover bills.

She IS covering bills. Gordon Bennett, is no-one actually reading OP's posts?

Scianel · 04/09/2022 23:33

get a contract stating when she will be moving out

That won't be worth the paper its on. If they refuse to move she's looking at eviction proceedings which can take up to a year.
Why would OP risk homelessness and damage to what's probably her most valuable asset like that?

bellaboo90 · 04/09/2022 23:45

You’re not being unreasonable or mean. I don’t think it’s fair of your sister to put this on you. I don’t mean to sound rude but personally I feel it’s irresponsible to have four children without having sufficient space or money for them. Too many people do this and then expect things to be handed to them, then get offended when it’s not.

You have completely understandable reasons for not wanting to do it.Your house would get wrecked. You’d have to pay to stay elsewhere and for storage. Also, what happens when you come home? It could be a nightmare when it comes to them moving out.

whumpthereitis · 04/09/2022 23:48

chiweenie · 04/09/2022 22:51

saraclara
yes a family of 6 needs a larger house more than a young woman so they do trump that young woman in my book-the larger home will raise the quality of life for 6 people rather than one person and enable that family to buy a home and so secure raised quality of life for a sustained period of time.

Look it is more convenient for them to let the young woman have it so their concern is for themselves not the family of 6 people, that much is obvious from the post. I would rather help 6 people than one person if I was in a position to not have to generate rent on a home.

This is a Daily Mail journalist generating a story- a very clear utilitarian ethical dilemma we are all contributing to so see you all in the Daily Mail tomorrow folks...maybe they will link it to the housing crisis or the NHS...

It’s not equally available to them though, so it doesn’t really matter whether they ‘need’ it more. Their ‘need’ is not the only consideration for OP and her husband (after all the house it equally is!), and is not automatically worthy of priority. With Sarah it’s two yeses from the home owners, with the sister it’s a no from both.

On a utilitarian basis sure, it’s six people versus one. Except it’s one person OP and husband trust to look after the house (and have it available to them as and when they need it), versus six people who would trash it and may very well be difficult to remove/recoup costs from. Context matters.

Kate0902900908 · 04/09/2022 23:49

You are NOT be unreasonable. You are offing your niece a house sitting opportunity. Your sister is asking to take over your home and make it her own… this is not what your looking for as you will be coming home 1/2 a year.
How is this even comparable!

4 children 2 adults is the heaviest of ware and tear it’s inevitable so I would 100% say no.

it sounds to me like your sister is being completely cheeky for even suggesting it, also what happens in 2 years if they can’t get a house and if like here there is a major shortage of rental property? No. It’s just a bad bad idea.

whumpthereitis · 04/09/2022 23:49

Breakfastisjustporridge · 04/09/2022 23:21

I would help my sister out in those circumstances. I would think my sister was being a bit of an arse to give a large house over to a single relative, while I was struggling in a small flat with a big family. I think it might damage your relationship otherwise.
I would look into insurance to cover any damages and charging a small amount to cover costs, get a contract stating when she will be moving out, but I think it's quite mean to possibly deny them the opportunity to save for something that could improve their lives significantly.

It’s not just OP’s house. It’s the husband’s. She can’t just unilaterally say ‘my sister’s having it!’, even if she wanted to.

That’s ignoring all the other issues.

Jewel7 · 04/09/2022 23:50

If it was my sister I would really want to help her out. Maybe there needs to be a condition that she pays some rent so you can use that to have somewhere to stay when you return? 6 people in a flat is hard! But every situation is different you have your reasons. You need to follow your gut.

willstarttomorrow · 04/09/2022 23:59

I think those thinking your sister has an automatic 'right' over your niece are either very sheltered or themselves entitled. It is your house and you have a plan that works for your situation. The fact your sister has a large family is her decision and her responsibility. She has made it work where she is living currently and can continue to do so. She is adult enough to have made these decisions so why the hell is she not adult enough to realise that her suggestion is crass and bloody entitled?

I have a family member who I love dearly who has 5 children and at times we have let them stay and at other times rented accommodation for a holiday so they can join us. At the time it has always seemed like a good idea but it is just too much. They are lovely children but the difference in noise and destruction from a large family to our little family of (now) one adult and child is huge. She is a great parent but practically parenting styles just have to be very different and their house is far more battered.

I would also be wary of your house becoming their home. Whilst your sister says she will save this is doubtful. More likely she the extra money will be a novelty to spend a bit more, then the cost of living increases etc. etc. This is just human nature rather than a reflection on your sister. Has she shown any any motivation to save up/ look for something more suitable before she thought she could suggest moving in to your house?