Are we being unreasonable for not letting my sister and her family live in our house while we are gone?

[timeaway4now]

My husband, son, and I are moving away for a few years. We were going to ask our niece, Sarah, to live in our house for free in return for looking after it until we return. She is currently looking for a new place in the area, so we thought it was good timing all around.

My sister found out about the situation and wants us to instead let her and her family live in the house because it’s much bigger and she wants more room for her kids. She and her husband have 4 children (ages 14, 11, 8, 6) in a small flat.

Our house on the other hand is larger, so the older two would be able to have their rooms. The house also has an office that my sister says we could convert to another bedroom so Sarah could live there for free as well. Although we know that Sarah wouldn’t want to as she prefers to live alone.

Aside from having more room my sisters other reasoning is that she and her husband want to to save up for a deposit for a house of their own. They have been having trouble doing so and living in our house rent free for a few years would help them a lot.

My main issues is that I don’t like the idea of a bunch of kids living in my house. Things get very hectic at my sister place. It makes me feel like it is inevitable that things would get damaged. I also worry about upsetting our neighbors with how loud they can get. Our area is generally very peaceful and quiet.

We would also have to deal with putting our things in storage to accommodate their furniture. Sarah doesn’t have many things so we would only have to rearrange somethings and store them in the spare bedrooms.

Lastly we planned on coming back to town to visit once or twice a year. If my sisters family was living here it would mean we would have to either stay in and pay for a hotel or we would have to deal with them being there and sleep in the house without our things.

Overall having my sister’s family live here makes us uncomfortable and just seems much more inconvenient than having Sarah stay. However my sister as well as some other relatives think we are being selfish not to help out them when we are more privileged than them.

Stick with Sarah.

I’d hazard a guess that based on your sister’s sense of entitlement, they will almost certainly fuck your house up. And you’ll definitely be worrying about it while you’re away.

If she'd have been a little less keen to do that, she wouldn't need such a big house.

Good point

All the posters saying sisters come first, sisters, how lucky you are having a good relationship with yours. Not all families are close. The Op even said she’s closer to Sarah than her sister.

Well roughly sister is expecting OP to pay her house deposit.

Because the person who is going to end up out of pocket is the OP.

It's the bigger equivalent of someone I know whose sister asked if she could go on the car insurance as she didn't have a car. Friend thought sister meant occasionally use it, and paid the extra insurance to put sister on happily.
Sister actually meant she wanted to use it for work every day. Friend pointed out she needed it to. Sister's response was "oh it's easier for you to take the train because I have more to carry..."
Friend removed sister from car insurance.

@Ponderingwindow

She isn’t acting like a person who should be trusted with a house.

I agree.

When we were abroad, and the house was between tenants, my NDN wanted her stepson and family to rent it. I refused, as I knew we would be back within two years, and I didn't want the drama/guilt of making kids move, as we were returning.

Stick to your guns OP. Your niece as a housesitter sounds ideal.

For all the reasons suggested here, I'm team Sarah and I'd be telling my sister that it's all in place and arranged now.

There is absolutely no guarantee that your sister would actually save up and be ready to move out/buy a house when you returned even if you let her live in your house. I have seen similar awful situations like this arise where family let relatives live rent free in properties on the understanding, they will use the time to save for their own deposit. The emotional blackmail nonsense is awful. Then, when the owners need the house back they play the victim that they haven't been able to save because of X and Y excuses, and aren't the owners just being very cruel and selfish kicking family out on the street. You have created a duty of care to these leaches and you can bet they will exploit it. They use their kids as shields to play PR games with family and it becomes a massive drama trying to get them out of the house.

That sounds cruel and mean but I have seen it happen.

In the case I am thinking of, my aunt ended up in debt and her niece, husband and kids lived in her house for two years longer than was agreed. My aunt lost out financially and the emotional and mental toll was unspeakable. My cousin (the niece) became little better than a squatter. When she and her family did finally leave (into more rented accommodation because they had not been saving for a deposit but rather going on expensive holidays, buying flash cars and 'designer' dogs....I kid you not.) after legal action and lots of bad feeling, my aunt walked into the house and found it in a state. Thousands of pounds of damage. Every wall needed repainted, damage to plaster board, carpets ruined, a leak that had been ignored and caused damp to spread and rot to set in....it was unspeakable.

Stick to your guns and only do what you are comfortable with. If you do intend to cave in then go to a solicitor and have a licensing/renting contract drawn up stating that your sister's family can stay in your house for a set X amount of time, include clauses for maintenance of the house and clear terms of payment for damages etc. Include a token rent that would cover you and yours being able to stay in a hotel when you visit home once a year. That way she can still save massive amounts towards a deposit and you aren't left out of pocket or inconvenienced when you need somewhere to stay. If your sister won't agree to sign such a contract as drawn up by a solicitor, then she is acting in bad faith and has consciously or subconsciously bad intentions. Alternatively, sign a savings renter agreement. Your sister moves into your home but has to pay you typical rent into a trust account. When you return and have your house returned to you she gets the balance of the trust account minus any deductions for repairs if they have not taken care of the house.

Protect yourself. Do not allow yourself to be emotionally manipulated into a vulnerable position.

Touché

Massive difference having Sarah and potentially her boyfriend (might be a good move) staying than a family of 6

as you say if you had to come home you could live alongside Sarah but not your sisters family

So dramatic. Not giving into someone demands that you fuck off an agreement you’ve already made with another family member, act like you unilaterally own the house, and accommodate them for free whilst they trash said house, doesn’t mean you hate them.

what about OP’s relationships with her husband, Sarah, and that side of the family? Or does the ‘but family!’ rationale begin and end with the sister?

I've skipped a few pages, but it's interesting that most of the posters saying that her sister should use it because SISTER, seem to think the OP's husband either doesn't exist, or has no say.

Presumably be feels as strongly about his own family as they think OP should about hers.

The packing up and putting things in storage is where I'd be screaming NO!!! That's a huge amount of work and money that sister would be expecting from them.

The only way to salvage your relationship with your sister would be to rent out your house rather than give it for free to anyone. Lock all your stuff in one part and rent it out as a much smaller house - one that your sister wouldn't want to live in and pay rent for.

You have the perfect out, OP.

If they move in you will have to pay out for 2 years of storage. If Sarah moves in you don't.

If they move in you will have nowhere to stay when you are back in the UK and would be forced to stay in hotels. If Sarah moves in, you can come home.

Maybe tell them you will be travelling back sometimes at short notice and your arrangement with Sarah included you coming home whenever necessary and you would need your office.

I can see why they'd want this to happen but if you don't want it then you don't want it, plus you have already offered to help another family member out.

Stick to your guns, OP.

Quite apart from the obvious practical reasons why sister moving in simply won't work, the arrangement has been made with Sarah and agreed. It would be appalling to go back on that and surely your family can see that, OP?.

There’s helping and there’s “give me your house for a few years”.
absurd.

No good deed goes unpunished, trust me.

Ex-DP moved into my rented flat with me, since I'd signed a six month lease anyway, with the plan being that we'd then move into his place after that point.

A friend split from her partner so we let her stay in his flat. When the time came for us to move back in, she had still not sorted out somewhere to live and we found her living with us in a one-bedroomed flat.

When I insisted that she go, we were the bad guys and I had other mutual friends coming up to me telling me how much stress I had caused her and brought on her migraines. She was apparently welcome to stay with them for as long as she liked (yet that somehow never happened).

Oh and she didn't pay any utilities the whole time she was there and left that bill for us, and left a two year old frozen trout in the freezer which she was very angry to learn that we'd binned.

Apparently OP’s relationship with her sister is the most important one, so much so that she should just hand the house over without even bothering to ask the co-owner his opinion.

and family only matters when it comes to this sister.

Id try to help but cover my own back.

I think I’d want to put my furniture in storage and get them to pay that and utilities. I’d say that they need to repaint the whole house and clean/replace carpets if needed and I’d specify that I’d need a room made available every time I came back, so the kids would need to be moved round then. Even with those expenses it’s still a great deal for several years. I think it would be wise to charge a monthly payment to cover the above expenses in a sort of saving plan. Any excess could be returned to them at the end as a bit extra to their saved deposit.

If, and only if, they agree to that, then I’d let them have it. If you can’t trust them to honour the agreement then stick to your original plan.

This sounds incredibly stressful but...
The trout detail has floored me 🤣🤣

I cannot imagine not helping a sister in this situation just ask them to pay for storage and hotel stays. But I notice people today seem just far more self centric for want of a better word. When you can help your family you help them in our family, but my SIL does what suits her and would not extend herself an inch if it is slightly inconvenient so everyone is different...

@timeaway4now does she earn enough to hear a family size home?

Also you need to consider house insurance and at what point you're a landlord.

I imagine that OP's DH can't imagine not helping his niece. Who's already been made the offer. So you think he should turn round and tell her she can't have the house after all?

What is it that means that OP's family trumps his?

A house is the single biggest investment most people make. There’s ZERO chance I’d allow a family to live in my home for free for YEARS, while I stored my things and had to stay in a hotel upon my return.

I wouldn’t loan our family vehicle for a month, and that’s cheaper to replace than a house! Someone ballsy enough to not only demand you allow them to move in, but who also brings other family members in on it absolutely cannot be trusted to respect any boundaries or agreements. They already don’t respect being told no. I’d rather see the back of the sister than lose my dang house to her, because there’s zero way she’ll be moving out again without a court order, and then you’ll have family shrieking about children being homeless.

Tell the yodelling family members that they’re welcome to house your sister’s family for free for years or give them the deposit for a house of their own.