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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask what your next move would be if you were Putin?

313 replies

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 13:01

So. You're Putin. You rule a massive amount of people. You're ex KGB. You want to take over the world perhaps (or maybe just want to play!).
What is your next move now that the West is in crisis as you won't supply them with oil/gas?
Your people are dying but you've loads of people. You've invaded a non NATO country so you know they won't touch you.

OP posts:
Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 16:30

IncessantNameChanger · 03/09/2022 16:25

Yes but if down to willy waving then why not us?

No one has used it so far in other conflicts so it's no on my worry radar.

I'm pretty sure that willy waving goes on in every conflict.

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DrawingdowntheMoon · 03/09/2022 16:30

If I was Putin I would pray for guidance.

Putin was raised by a devout Christian mother and is known to have worn a crucifix around his neck for most of his life.
While President Putin, like most Russians, identifies himself as a follower of the Orthodox Church, the state is officially secular.
Apparently he was a closet believer until he survived a terrible car accident.

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 16:33

thefoggiest · 03/09/2022 14:22

If I were Putin I would be interested in testing the extent to which the west is prepared to act so would probably stir up some trouble on an EU border, on the border with Estonia say. Maybe just a few "accidents".

My end goal would be to spite the west so I would probably be looking to get as close as possible to China and maybe start my own "union" excluding the west and working with china to control the wests economy. As the "brain" of the EU I would be looking to damage Germany financially.

He tested it in Irish waters prior to invading Ukraine. He knows that Ireland has no defence force and he knows that London is a very short shout from Irish waters. The EU didn't intervene nor did the UK. He then invaded the Ukraine. And he's back again, literally testing the waters.

OP posts:
Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 16:34

DrawingdowntheMoon · 03/09/2022 16:30

If I was Putin I would pray for guidance.

Putin was raised by a devout Christian mother and is known to have worn a crucifix around his neck for most of his life.
While President Putin, like most Russians, identifies himself as a follower of the Orthodox Church, the state is officially secular.
Apparently he was a closet believer until he survived a terrible car accident.

A convert with a god-complex?

OP posts:
DrawingdowntheMoon · 03/09/2022 16:43

@Chowbellow

"A convert with a god-complex?"

I wouldn't like to speculate what is in Putin's heart or the state of his soul, but it seems that prayers to St Anthony (or the Russian Orthodox equivalent) might be expedient in his situation.

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 17:06

DrawingdowntheMoon · 03/09/2022 16:43

@Chowbellow

"A convert with a god-complex?"

I wouldn't like to speculate what is in Putin's heart or the state of his soul, but it seems that prayers to St Anthony (or the Russian Orthodox equivalent) might be expedient in his situation.

Fair comment ;)

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creamwitheverything · 03/09/2022 17:48

I am Putin and I would immediately call a ceasefire and withdraw all my troops,Then I would keep it , the ceasefire for an unspecified amount of time, renegociate with Germany and the west on my new gas tariffs and freeingf assets and then when all Governments are exhibiting a level of trust that I am behaving just enough to relax them, I would then start all over again.

Acheyknees · 03/09/2022 17:55

He totally underestimated the Ukrainians, he believed the Russians would take Kiev in 3 days. The forces massed on the border waiting to invade were low already on fuel and supplies due the the length of time they were waiting. Supply lines were not properly planned and morale is rock bottom. Russia is running low on munitions, they can't recruit enough soldiers to go to the front line. Putin has isolated himself and lives in a bubble surrounded by yes men all afraid to tell him the truth. He's losing the war and losing the Russian public. I think he's paranoid and mistrusts those surrounding him. I think he saw himself as a great soviet leader of times gone by. Those days are over, I think he knows he's got to dress this 'special operation' up as a success and withdraw.

Suzi888 · 03/09/2022 17:59

That I view myself as the next Hitler and I better increase my security detail asap.
Threaten to push the button and maybe one day I will because I’m unhinged.

RudsyFarmer · 03/09/2022 18:03

I suspect you’ll wondering if he’ll end up causing a nuclear situation and yes I think he will. His objective is to bankrupt the West and goad us into a military escalation that will allow him to use weapons.

Iadorerain · 03/09/2022 18:19

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 13:57

And btw that is the first time that I've heard that. I think that's what he wants. He feels like Russia has played its part, yet now they won't give credit for it. I actually think that this is it. That's his psyche!

I’d want Russia’s pride for our input in WW2 to be acknowledged. ThecWest could start by putting up memorials to Russia’s WW2 dead in our military cemeteries.

DrawingdowntheMoon · 03/09/2022 18:34

"I’d want Russia’s pride for our input in WW2 to be acknowledged. ThecWest could start by putting up memorials to Russia’s WW2 dead in our military cemeteries."

Now that isn't a bad idea.

As many as 27 million Soviets lost their lives, with as many as 11.4 million military deaths joined by up to 10 million civilian deaths due to military activity and an additional 8 million to 9 million deaths due to famine and disease.

People seem to forget that Russia was our ally in WW2

Tierne · 03/09/2022 18:39

@DrawingdowntheMoon
I'm ashamed to say I did forget. I had to quickly flick through some history for something last week, going back over events I havent looked at since school. And they were there in WW1 and WW2.
I guess it is strange we havent marked that out more, compared to eg Canadian soldiers memorials and stuff in Normandy

Rinatinabina · 03/09/2022 18:53

I would be targeting countries like china, south asia, africa for oil sales. Apply pressure on those states who export food to withhold food exports or a food for oil/ gas deal to worsen shortages elsewhere. Ramp up targeting of Ukrainian farmland, just carpet bomb it.

I would come up with problem after problem with Nordstream pipes over winter. Perhaps shut them off for a couple of weeks, pop them back on for a few days etc. basically try to trigger a recession to create domestic problems (germany is possibly already in recession).

I would step up the brutality of my attacks (build up for a very large simultaneous offensive) because by this point I am fairly sure the west will not intervene.

Talk up nuclear strikes.

Rinatinabina · 03/09/2022 18:55

creamwitheverything · 03/09/2022 17:48

I am Putin and I would immediately call a ceasefire and withdraw all my troops,Then I would keep it , the ceasefire for an unspecified amount of time, renegociate with Germany and the west on my new gas tariffs and freeingf assets and then when all Governments are exhibiting a level of trust that I am behaving just enough to relax them, I would then start all over again.

I really think he would do this.

Rinatinabina · 03/09/2022 19:00

Also he’s turning 70 and looks sick. He’s managed to steal billions but hasn’t done much else, he has no real legacy. Not like the people he may admire.

I think thats what drives him, he hasn’t done anything of note (apart from nick crimea) that would be worth writing in a history book (from a “glorious” leader perspective 🙄). I think he’s getting old, he’s sick (possibly dying) and he wants some great achievement to his name. Not going to back down.

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 19:00

I did not know that Russia was our ally. I think I must have learned it somewhere as I think the tide turned when Russia got involved? I recall hearing about freezing the Russian army (with cold harsh winters) but I'm not sure which war that refers to. Why are we not friends with them anymore?

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GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/09/2022 19:01

If I were Putin?

Id pull out of Ukraine completely and without conditions, including Crimea and the so-called people’s republics. I’d pay full reparations and beg forgiveness (knowing that it couldn’t be forthcoming for generations). I’d donate the vast majority of my own fortune towards this as a gesture.

I’d systemically root out corruption in my government and prosecute those who have basically stolen from the state, confiscating their fortunes to put towards rebuilding Ukraine and also Russia, which is in a terrible state after years of theft from public coffers.

Id hold free and fair elections as soon as it was practical to do so.

Then I’d hand myself over to the ICC.

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 19:02

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/09/2022 19:01

If I were Putin?

Id pull out of Ukraine completely and without conditions, including Crimea and the so-called people’s republics. I’d pay full reparations and beg forgiveness (knowing that it couldn’t be forthcoming for generations). I’d donate the vast majority of my own fortune towards this as a gesture.

I’d systemically root out corruption in my government and prosecute those who have basically stolen from the state, confiscating their fortunes to put towards rebuilding Ukraine and also Russia, which is in a terrible state after years of theft from public coffers.

Id hold free and fair elections as soon as it was practical to do so.

Then I’d hand myself over to the ICC.

Clearly, you haven't a clue.

OP posts:
BelleHathor · 03/09/2022 19:04

If I was Putin, I would give a speech to the West saying: Your government chose this for you. They chose this path. They lied to you telling you that we would run out of ammunition in 3 days. Telling you that our army is depleted knowing that we have committed less than 20% of our forces and are firing 25000 shells a day. Telling you that Ukraine is winning while we control 20% of their land and over 50% of their GDP producing commodities. They failed to tell you that in January 2022 Zelensky had amassed 1000s of soldiers on the Donbas borders, ready to take it back by force and they supported this. That in the days before the SMO shelling on civilians had increased. That on February the 21st Russia recognised the Donbas Republics and they asked for assistance and we assisted under article 51 of the UN charter. They called Russians monsters to manufacture your consent for a proxy war, knowing it would make you poorer.

The west is based on a "rules based order" where sanctions are imposed not based on the threat posed, but on challenging the hegemony of the Anglo-American axis and who still trade with countries committing atrocities today.

That axis in hypocrisy, has been responsible for the deaths and displacement of millions of people over the decades. I would remind people of the collateral damage of bombing
weddings... of enacting regime changes that often lead to civil wars....of the same people who cried "weapons of mass destruction"...the everlasting effect of colonialism and slavery, the looting of resources from poorer countries (as happened to Russia in the 1990s).

I would remind Europe that 25 million Russians died defeating Hitler on the Eastern front and it was the Red Army that stormed Berlin, we paid that price in blood so that Europe could be free, and now you call us Nazis? 1000s of Russian Jews and Polish were murdered in WW2 by the
Bandera/Waffen SS aligned Ukrainian insurgent army.
For 8 years we begged the West to enforce or implement the Minsk agreements. We asked them to show the atrocities committed against the Eastern Donbas for the crime of being "Russian", the Odessa massacre, the daily shelling by the Ukrainian Govt, the disappearances, the children's graves and nothing.

I knew that the West is agreement incapable and hypocritical, that's why for the last 8 years we formed alliances. We stockpiled weapons knowing that War would come. Maybe that's why the Global South representing 85% of the world population supports or is neutral towards Russia. They too have been victims of this "rules based order", they too have suffered regime change and looting by Western nations. The "non civilised" world is ready for revenge.

NATO said not one inch to the left in 1991, we told you it was a red line and you ignored our concerns. Instead you surrounded us.

So to the people of the West, your leaders did this, forgetting the lessons of WW2 they armed and trained an army with nationalist battalions (2% or 20% doesn't matter) who became the best trained army in Europe by shelling civilians in the east. They sent weapons which killed Russian soldiers and of now which I have a cache of to study. They vowed to destroy Russia via sanctions and starve the Russian people, ignoring the hunger that would be caused to Global south who held dollars to buy Russian grain.

They banned everything Russian and caused the economic instability. So when you freeze this year ask them? Did you consent to your taxes being used to kill civilians for 8 years? Did you consent to being poorer and your children's futures being ruined. What kind of leaders would arm a place aligned with those who your elderly generation died for in WW2?

I vow to destroy the West as they vowed to destroy Russia and will avenge every murdered person in the East. Russia sits on 60 trillion dollars of resourced and we produce our own food.
Together with the nations of BRICS, we will create parallel systems and currencies to trade in encouraging widespread de-dollarisation.
I invite the global south to join in the vision of creating a multipolar new world order based on international law and mutual respect not dominated by a single power afraid of losing its number 1 spot, but on trading as peers.

We will not leave the Donbas as the last time we did people were tortured for 8 years. The west is happy to fight to the last Ukrainian and as Kissinger said "To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal"?,

We will trade with friendly countries based on respect and law. We will protect mother Russia by any means. Remember, I am the weak one, I waited 8 years trying to get Minsk implemented. I ordered the withdrawal from Donbas in 2014. Those behind me are angrier because of the Russophobia, your leaders actions showed moderates that you really do hate us. 80% of my people support me.

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 19:05

It's interesting actually that some people who commented note Russia's involvement in protecting the West. What soured the relationship? Nuclear development?

OP posts:
Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 19:10

BelleHathor · 03/09/2022 19:04

If I was Putin, I would give a speech to the West saying: Your government chose this for you. They chose this path. They lied to you telling you that we would run out of ammunition in 3 days. Telling you that our army is depleted knowing that we have committed less than 20% of our forces and are firing 25000 shells a day. Telling you that Ukraine is winning while we control 20% of their land and over 50% of their GDP producing commodities. They failed to tell you that in January 2022 Zelensky had amassed 1000s of soldiers on the Donbas borders, ready to take it back by force and they supported this. That in the days before the SMO shelling on civilians had increased. That on February the 21st Russia recognised the Donbas Republics and they asked for assistance and we assisted under article 51 of the UN charter. They called Russians monsters to manufacture your consent for a proxy war, knowing it would make you poorer.

The west is based on a "rules based order" where sanctions are imposed not based on the threat posed, but on challenging the hegemony of the Anglo-American axis and who still trade with countries committing atrocities today.

That axis in hypocrisy, has been responsible for the deaths and displacement of millions of people over the decades. I would remind people of the collateral damage of bombing
weddings... of enacting regime changes that often lead to civil wars....of the same people who cried "weapons of mass destruction"...the everlasting effect of colonialism and slavery, the looting of resources from poorer countries (as happened to Russia in the 1990s).

I would remind Europe that 25 million Russians died defeating Hitler on the Eastern front and it was the Red Army that stormed Berlin, we paid that price in blood so that Europe could be free, and now you call us Nazis? 1000s of Russian Jews and Polish were murdered in WW2 by the
Bandera/Waffen SS aligned Ukrainian insurgent army.
For 8 years we begged the West to enforce or implement the Minsk agreements. We asked them to show the atrocities committed against the Eastern Donbas for the crime of being "Russian", the Odessa massacre, the daily shelling by the Ukrainian Govt, the disappearances, the children's graves and nothing.

I knew that the West is agreement incapable and hypocritical, that's why for the last 8 years we formed alliances. We stockpiled weapons knowing that War would come. Maybe that's why the Global South representing 85% of the world population supports or is neutral towards Russia. They too have been victims of this "rules based order", they too have suffered regime change and looting by Western nations. The "non civilised" world is ready for revenge.

NATO said not one inch to the left in 1991, we told you it was a red line and you ignored our concerns. Instead you surrounded us.

So to the people of the West, your leaders did this, forgetting the lessons of WW2 they armed and trained an army with nationalist battalions (2% or 20% doesn't matter) who became the best trained army in Europe by shelling civilians in the east. They sent weapons which killed Russian soldiers and of now which I have a cache of to study. They vowed to destroy Russia via sanctions and starve the Russian people, ignoring the hunger that would be caused to Global south who held dollars to buy Russian grain.

They banned everything Russian and caused the economic instability. So when you freeze this year ask them? Did you consent to your taxes being used to kill civilians for 8 years? Did you consent to being poorer and your children's futures being ruined. What kind of leaders would arm a place aligned with those who your elderly generation died for in WW2?

I vow to destroy the West as they vowed to destroy Russia and will avenge every murdered person in the East. Russia sits on 60 trillion dollars of resourced and we produce our own food.
Together with the nations of BRICS, we will create parallel systems and currencies to trade in encouraging widespread de-dollarisation.
I invite the global south to join in the vision of creating a multipolar new world order based on international law and mutual respect not dominated by a single power afraid of losing its number 1 spot, but on trading as peers.

We will not leave the Donbas as the last time we did people were tortured for 8 years. The west is happy to fight to the last Ukrainian and as Kissinger said "To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal"?,

We will trade with friendly countries based on respect and law. We will protect mother Russia by any means. Remember, I am the weak one, I waited 8 years trying to get Minsk implemented. I ordered the withdrawal from Donbas in 2014. Those behind me are angrier because of the Russophobia, your leaders actions showed moderates that you really do hate us. 80% of my people support me.

I'm actually going to cry reading that. I didn't intend to hear a reasonable argument when I wrote this thread. I wrote it for fun. I'm sorry for writing it now.

OP posts:
DrawingdowntheMoon · 03/09/2022 19:10

@Chowbellow This is from a BBC webpage:

"For Paul R Pillar, a senior fellow at the Centre for Security Studies at Georgetown University and a former senior CIA officer, the initial fault lies with the West.
"The relationship went wrong when the West did not treat Russia as a nation that had shaken off Soviet Communism," he told me. "It should have been welcomed as such into a new community of nations - but instead it was regarded as the successor state of the USSR, inheriting its status as the principal focus of Western distrust."
This original sin, if you like, was compounded by the West's enthusiasm for Nato expansion, first taking in countries like Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary, who had long nationalist traditions of struggling against rule from Moscow.
But Nato's expansion didn't end there as it added countries like the three Baltic States, whose territory had been part of the former Soviet Union. Is it any wonder then, the critics ask, that Moscow should baulk also at the idea of Georgia or Ukraine entering the western orbit?
In short, Russia believes that it has been treated unfairly since the end of the Cold War."

Chowbellow · 03/09/2022 19:17

I genuinely am sorry that I wrote this now. I have hated Russia since I saw footage of a girl-band being flogged for being bisexual or something. I know very little about Russia and I have never read War and Peace. I know that are deemed to have one of the highest IQ's in the world, that their ballet is brilliant and their spies are merciless. I know nothing to be honest and their crimes against women is enough for me to not like them. Is it enough though that we kill them? That they kill us? Where do we draw the line?

OP posts:
Thebestwaytoscareatory · 03/09/2022 19:18

I'd just carry on as is and settle in for a war of attrition.

Russia has the resources to outlast Ukraine but, more crucially if they keep access to their oil, gas, wheat, cooper, steel, etc restricted to allies/neutral nations, they will probably be able force Western Europe into backing down.

I think winter will be the turning point. Russians are far better equipped to deal with hardship than the spoiled soft populations of the West. The Ukrainians will continue to fight to the end but one difficult winter will be enough to erode support in Western Europe to the point there will be internal pressure to settle things.

At that poing I'd look to negotiate for Ukraine to become a Russian territory but would settle for the Donbas and Crimea becoming officially Russian instead. I'd also demand an agreement that there will be no more NATO expansion or that Russia be allowed to join NATO (which was previously denied).