To feel confused at teachers response?

[olimin]

Hi all, first time posting. Thought I'd get a bit more perspective from other parents.

DC started reception today. It's day two And the kids are going in for half days the next week to get settled in.

DC's never attended nursery. He's also late summer born so is a lot younger than most of the kids in his class.

Feedback I've gotten for the past couple days from teachers has been that he's struggling to follow instructions, is persistent in doing his own thing and playing despite being told to join the rest of the class, repeatedly trying to leave the classroom and rarely responding to his name being called.

The teacher even insinuated that he might have special needs (which I know for certain he does not). The only positive she's mentioned is that he seems to be very bright.

I thought that reception was about getting kids to learn to follow rules and get used to school structure and routine.

Did any of your kids go through something like this? Should I be worried? He always responds to his name at home and with persistent instructions does what he's told. To me he seems stubborn and strong willed. Don't know what to do.

Imagine labelling a child ‘SEN’ after two days of school. A child who has never been to nursery as well.

Yes, and imagine sending your child cold turkey with no prep for school readiness, into a busy school environment when all they’ve really ever known is being at home with mum.

@Thatsnotmycar he SEN register is a dynamic list which children can come on and off of. Reading those articles the concern seems to be children get put on these lists and then written off as “SEN” so it doesn’t matter that they don’t progress. Which should not be the case for any child. An sen register is a dynamic list which should be used to identify pupils who need targeted support, that would include those who are not meeting expected levels in eyfs. If ultimately OPs son is just in that group that needs more support because of being young and not taught skillsc then can be done just in the classroom then surely it’s a good thing he’s identified and helped?

It’s really unhelpful there is such a stigma attached to SeN and neurodiversity. That some how children are being “labelled”, “unfairly” put on registers, like it’s this terrible thing where they end up written off for life.

people here posting forget that the national funding for early years only started in 2017, and prior to that some finding was available, but even that didn’t start until after 2005 ish .
Up until then many, many children started school without any nursery experience. Some had childminder experience (which a large Proportion of parents relied on as more affordable than nursery), but not the sort of disciplined environment nursery provided. Where nurseries were used, they were almost all private and certainly until around late 1990s had no oversight given by Ofsted (nor did childminders)

most primary schools had no nurseries. They had a reception year that focused on phasing kids into school routine. Most kids started as part time in the term before they turned 5. Some schools did start the, full time in that first term.

My eldest started school at 4.5 as an august child, in 2009, he could not read, he had no experience of classrooms, but he was not in a minority. He had been with childminder, he gone to playgroups to socialise but that was all that was available to us. The first nursery I could use opened in 1997, just shortly before my youngest birth. There was no government help in paying for any childcare at all for any age. My eldest was ready for school though at that age, and learnt to read pretty quickly catching up with his year group by the end of reception year- which is why they did it that way …they knew kids would catch up with targeted teaching as each new intake arrived. Socially he settled down well by end of reception- again because it was designed that way. That was whole point of reception year and why it was called that - it prepared kids for school in following year. However even in year 1 teachers expected they’d need to support kids who’d just had that one term in reception more than say autumn term arrivals, they understood that kids weren’t all “formal lesson ready” until spring term of year 1.

whilst early years education act has been helpful and a godsend financially to parents , it now puts a lot of pressure on parents to educate their kids at nursery at ever younger years, or run the gauntlet of disapproval from parents like some MN posters here, and lack of support from teachers who now ex kids to turn up oven ready. There is nothing wrong with not putting a child into nursery if they have a SAHP that is giving them development opportunities. Somehow we’ve made this no longer an acceptable way to raise a child. There are countries that have excellent educational outcomes where kids don’t start to read until 6 plus fgs.

what this poster has done was normal and standard up until a few short years ago. And guess what, for a lot of kids educational outcomes in long term made no difference whether in nursery or not. Yep, it has made a difference to kids in deprived areas and homes, but for a lot of kids with good parenteral support it makes no difference in long run.

I would be pissed off with teacher who said this. As a reception year teacher she should be trained and expect to deal with kids who have not been in a classroom setting before and thought it’s her job to get the kids prepared for year 1 and to thrive in that classroom setting. Sounds like reception year teachers are getting too used to pre school nursery doing the heavy lifting for school prep at an ever earlier age.

And in turn, from reading post on MN with increasing concern, pre school nurseries are imposing ever unnatural one size rules about development like being potty trained by 3, and being able to dress independently etc. so I guess they can spend more time on stuff that used to be done in reception year. Some kids aren’t ready for potty by 3- they’re not backwards, just brains that are wiring up in a different order than other kids.

Ofsted has a lot to answer for,

I know what the SEN register is, I just answered your question about where the stats come from and why when a diagnosis takes ages. I also didn’t say the teacher raising it with the OP was a negative thing, neither did I say being on the SEN register was a bad thing.

The pp saying how unusual it is to attend no childcare or preschool setting before Reception are correct. I had to look this up recently at work - 92% of 3-4 year olds take up the universal 15 hours, and this is the lowest it’s been as there is still a post-Covid effect on take-up. It really is very very unusual for the Reception classroom to be a child’s first experience of a setting outside of their home.

people here posting forget that the national funding for early years only started in 2017, and prior to that some finding was available, but even that didn’t start until after 2005 ish

The universal 15 hours was one of the first things the new coalition gov brought in - 2010.

I would take him out. Why did you send a just turned four year old to school,

Because it's completely standard practice in the UK to send your child to school in the September after they turn 4........?

Im an EYFS teacher. I take it she was gently letting you know how he’s getting on? If she feels he is standing out more than others she will be trying to let you know early on so you can work together.

Despite being a young 4 I would expect him to follow instructions and listen, answering to his own name. These would be more usual at 3, not 4. Also, at home you might have made allowances, letting him carry on rather than expecting him to stop what he’s doing. It’s very different having 1:1 at home with all needs being met and then in a class of 30 and expected to be able to follow instructions.

To give you an idea, my Nursery class of 23, that are starting reception next week (with some young 4s in it) can:

• follow a simple instruction
• respond to their name and most can answer a question clearly
• can move onto a new activity, even if they’d rather not!
• can find someone new to play with (most can)
• will stop doing an activity and tidy up

Your son currently sounds similar to Nursery when they start in September. Hopefully he’ll adjust to reception and understand the importance of working as a team to listen, to join in carpet time etc

As a Nursery teacher, what’s nice about reading this thread is how important Nursery is, in preparing children for reception.

In some areas, it is very rare for a child not to have attended some kind of group learning situation prior to reception. The expectation is definitely that children will be used to classroom procedures and following directions from a teacher. In these areas, even children of SAHP will have attended nursery part-time for a year or two.

^ what areas? Most of my stay at home parent friends have only taken kids to pre school for a day the term beforehand. I certainly won't be sending mine to nursery. This teacher sounds thick to me ignoring the context for your child. It's quite obvious what's going on. It's day two of a completely new environment.

Sounds like my son, who turned out to be partially deaf, probably autistic, has ADHD, and auditory processing issues. He has never missed the word 'sweets' or 'chocolate' in his life, and is always the first to the door when the ice cream van comes past. He couldn't hear his teacher because her voice was a lower frequency to mine, but could hear high frequencies more clearly than somebody without his hearing issues. So he would be able to hear the radio playing two houses away, but not something happening in the same room. I thought he just didn't hear things he didn't want to hear. Turns out the ice cream van and next next doors radio were just the perfect frequency, and the way I called his name the third time, because when I said it he couldn't hear me, but when I started to get annoyed my voice would rise a little and he would. He had grommets, and can now hear better, but he still has a lot of additional needs and very behind in a lot of ways compared to his peers, but also incredibly bright IQ wise. I would rule out special needs too quickly, especially if this is somebody who has worked in early years for a long time. It is very easy to become blinkered when it's your child, all you can see is this wonderful little human you love with all your heart, they are so close to you it's hard to see clearly any learning issues or neuro-divergence, whereas somebody with fresh eyes or a bit more distance can see something as though it's clearly observable which would take us years to see, partly through the self deception we are under out of fear of what a diagnosis or difference could mean for our child, and for us.

Believe it or not, this used to be the common experience known as 'starting school'. Until fairly recently, most young children stayed at home with their families until the age or 4 or 5, and became socialised by playing with the kids next door or down the street, their siblings, cousins etc. Not that many of my generation (I'm 50) or older had much or any preschool playgroup experience, and vast majority of us developed into perfectly normal well-adjusted human beings, with the help of our parents. That has been the case for most of history. I do wish some posters here would stop bashing this OP.

I know a few parents from mother and toddler groups who like me, haven't sent their children to nursery. Its not the norm because many mothers work but it's certainly not unheard of.
I am sure it was the right decision for my children, but now this one is starting reception I am wondering if it will work when she has only had a few hours in a preschool setting

You can apply for back classing, but the school don't have to agree, or the local education authority. It's at the discretion of the school and LA and depends a lot on where in the country you are and what your reasons for back classing are. A delayed start is usually much easier to gain permission for than back classing, but sometimes they want kids to go into Y1 instead of EY or have a plan of when they will 'catch back up' to their original year group. That said, if you do want a delayed start or back class, doing it ASAP ideally before school start but 2 days in is better than 2 weeks or months. It is best to do it when you apply or accept the place, but obviously not possible if the child has already started.
Being a summer born child is often not deemed a good enough reason on its own. The cases I've known where back classing especially (as opposed to delayed start where you apply before they start at all) there were serious reasons such as health issues, domestic violence, neglect, abuse or other disruptions due to a difficult start, or where the child needed assessments for their additional needs/ EHCP. Even then, it hard won.

I've known of 2 cases of preemies, one set very early born twins, the other a less preemie single child but who was born late august so the youngest in the year, who were declined a delayed start.

Yes, it used to be the norm for a child to be at home until Reception but it also used to be the norm to have three intake points in the year, so a just-turned four-year-old wouldn’t start in September.

I understand those who are citing this to erasure the OP but this is one of those situations where the individual context and culture of the school is highly relevant. Some infant schools don’t have a nursery class at all: others (like my DC’s) take 95% of their Reception intake from their own nursery classes and therefore a child who is not used to the setting and routines will initially stand out. They soon catch up, of course.

My honest opinion, from a mum with a similar aged boy, is that either he's poorly behaved or he requires additional support.

Does he follow instructions at home?

My kid can be cheeky but he listens to adults and wouldn't run away at this age.

It's early days though.

I would work on these things at home. If he really doesn't have any additional needs, then I think maybe he needs stricter boundaries and expectations.

The current advocated best practice is that schools should be having conversations about suspected SEND as early as possible.

Within 5 days of starting has been widely mooted in DfE funded EYFS best practice materials

Most teachers agree that you know after 5 days.

My now 9 year old started school with an NHS diagnosis of ASD, but his reception teacher "did not see it", and asked if I was sure he'd been properly assessed. They had copies of the diagnosis report.

In the Summer term she told me she did now "see it".

You can if they were born after a certain date. The problem is when they reach secondary school, because they can make the child go directly into year 8.

Ah, I see. My son has ADD and I’d imagine it’s more noticeable at school as there is more distracting him. I know to cue him in before asking him something but a new teacher might not and wonder why he’s seemingly not listening and looking elsewhere. I agree with you that a few more days of getting to know him might have been better in case he’s just a bit caught up in the excitement of it all and isn’t quite sure about how he’s expected to behave - totally understandable. I think perhaps they asked quickly just so that they didn’t make a mistake (eg not knowing he has a hearing issue when they call his name etc etc). The best thing to do might be to ask to speak to them in a week and then in a fortnight to see if he’s behaving more as they’d hope.

Totally bonkers they have said this on day 2!

It’s not bonkers.
Rememeber they didn’t say the DC has SEN, simply enquired if there were any known SEN.

If a child behaves in an extremely unusual way and is struggling, the teacher’s job is to try to work out what’s going on and how to support them as soon as they can. If that child is really struggling you don’t just wait 4 weeks or 3 months….you look to gather info and provide support as soon as you can.

Its not about passing judgement as some people, and OP seem to think. It’s not criticising and labelling. It’s looking to support the child. Unusual behaviours often have explanations and teachers need to find them. It could be it’s simply explained through the lack of nursery education. But the teacher needs to know and then can adapt expectations and support to reflect that. It’s also the case that very often teachers have seen particular SEN many times and can spot something that’s likely pretty quickly. Knowing or confirming means the school can provide support. But if they don’t have info from a nursery, the parent is the only and right person to speak to.

I find it sad that so many on this thread see this teacher as the enemy, or. As interfering or stepping across a boundary. Too often, parents’ unwillingness to engage with school to work together to support a child is a real barrier to that child settling or making the progress they could. Parents and school need to work together, but some parents seem to find that pretty much impossible and their knee jerk reaction is to be defensive, and to see any communication or discussion about the child as a criticism and take offence. What a shame.

It came in in the 1990s for 4 year olds as a universal offer.

core.ac.uk/download/pdf/46172863.pdf